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-   -   EC130 Corner (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/277514-ec130-corner.html)

Pac Rotors 13th Feb 2001 20:45

EC130 Corner
 
Had a good look at the new EC-130 yesterday here at Heli Expo. Looks like a Gazellle on steroids from the back and a Schweizer 333 from the front. From all accounts flies very nicely and will be a positive addition to the US and Canadian tour market. Time will tell but it does look nice.

IanSeager 13th Feb 2001 20:47

I saw it too, and have to say that I didn't like the way it looked, especially from the front.

Pac Rotors 14th Feb 2001 05:15

It looks nice from the side and behind but agreed it doesnt look too crash hot from the front, as said before reminds me of the Schweizer 333.

It is supposed to be the latest in the AS-350 series so I suppose it could technically be called the B4 or as some call it the Allouette IV.

whatsarunway 15th Feb 2001 01:39

have to say i thought it looked good but im not convinced about the seating arangments for the pilots , better than the 333 though, what do you call the controls when theres three sets of them , 3 cyclics ,3 collectivs and 6 pedals , not duals.


'you have control , were you talking to me?'



RW-1 15th Feb 2001 22:35

Without noticing the step protruding out in front on the pic, (don't know whethe it does on the real bird, will have to look) I first noticed the unique skid design.

Interesting eh? Tying it into the wire strike category, using that design would now half your chances only leaving the area between fuse and rotor, unless that step does protrude as pictured ....

I agree on the nose looks though, the 120 looks better to me.

------------------
Marc

widgeon 15th Feb 2001 23:44

Not the ugliest bird at the show though . IMHO that prize goes to the law enforcement Explorer , if you don't catch the crooks it will surely scare the hell out of them. Good to see the Skycrane up close though really impressive machine.

Pac Rotors 16th Feb 2001 10:56

Aparently that Explorer was the one that was being used by the Coastguard for the evaluation that they did recently. Looks a little different now that it is in a different colour scheme.

Flying Lawyer 17th Feb 2001 20:35

I agree. It does resemble the 333 from the front. But the spec seems to make up for that!

http://www.eurocopter.com/ec130/img/photo05m.jpg
http://www.eurocopter.com/ec130/img/photo11m.jpg

Whatsarunway: Triples, perhaps?

alouette 16th Nov 2003 16:30

EC130
 
Does anybody have some information on charter rates for the EC 130 B4 in Europe or elsewhere. I appreciate some feedback on this matter. Cheers:ok:

widgeon 16th Nov 2003 20:13

http://www.bluehawaiian.com/tour_det...p?tgid=3&tid=8

They are charging an extra 35 US for a 45 min flight .

Based on purchase cost I would expect commercial rates similar to a Koala or Bell 407 , maybe 15% above b2/B3 rates. Of course it depends how much the customer is willing to pay for an extra seat and the type of work.

just read more of the page . seems they are not using the 8 place config ( can any one confirm this ) premium is just for lower noise more comfort and better view.

alouette 17th Nov 2003 15:26

EC 130B4
 
Thanks a lot, widgeon!:ok:

CVR 18th Nov 2003 06:11

EC130 CHARTER RATES
 
Charter rates in ireland for the EC130 are roughly 1700euro/hr, you can contact www.linkshelicopters.com..............hope this helps.:ok:

Brasky 9th Mar 2005 19:20

EC130 FADEC Failures
 
Understanding that the Eurocopter EC130 has a dual channel FADEC, what are the requirements following a failure scenario?

For instance:

1. Channel 1 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"?

2. Channel 2 Fails - Do I ...
a. "Land as Soon as Possible"
b. "Land as Soon as Practical"
c. Does control revert to manual?
d. Do I ride this screaming beast to earth?

Thanks in advance for the info!

What Red Line? 9th Mar 2005 20:12

In the unlikely event that both channels failed the metering valve will freeze in the position it was in when the both FADECS agreed there was a failure. The system then reverts to a third buck-up system, the EBCAU which operates independantly from the two FADECs. The back-up system is set to give you aprox 102% NR and will get you to where you can land with no problems but you are supposed to avoid abrupt manoeuvres.

There is no manual connection between the twistgrip and the engine as this is a true FADEC. The twistgrip rotation simply triggers the TWT GRP warning light, then it contacts the idle speed microswitch commanding the 67% idle.

WRL

maxtork 9th Mar 2005 20:49

The EC130B4 is, as stated before a true FADEC controlled engine, which also has a third electrical back up system (EBCAU or emergency back up control ancillary unit) provided by Europcopter. In the event that one channel of the FADEC would fail, the system would switch to the other channel and continue to fly WITH NO INDICATION TO THE PILOT AT THAT TIME!. This event would be considered a loss of redundancy since we have a second channel to continue to control the engine. Upon shut down in this case you would get a flashing amber GOV light which would indicate you had, in the last flight, a loss of redundancy and maintenance is required.

If for some reason you were to lose both channels of the FADEC system you would imediately get a red and an amber GOV light which indicates the FADEC is now out of the loop and the EBCAU system is activated. The EBCAU system is linked to the N2C sensor and it's sole purpose in life is to meter fuel flow to acheive and maintain 100% N2 speed (this may equate to 102Nr as previously posted). The EBCAU system is said to be very responsive but may slightly lag behind collective inputs so be cautious when flying in this mode.

The other thing to be aware of here is that the EC130 normally has a variable rotor RPM system in place for lowering noise levels. If at the time of this hypothetical dual channel FADEC failure you happen to be at a higher rotor rpm (I think 104% is the max) then you would get a red and amber light and the engine and rotor system would decelerate to achieve 100%N2 as commanded by the EBCAU. Normally this situation would prompt a pilot to react by lowering the collective (a normal response to red lights and decelerating engine/rotor) which in this case can cause an overspeed! Remember if you get the red AND the amber GOV lights it is an indication the the EBCAU is active and not abnormal for the engine and rotor to decelerate. Obviously I wouldn't let things get too far before I did something but keep it in the back of your mind.

In the worst case scenario if both FADEC channels as well as the EBCAU all failed you would be stuck with a fixed fuel flow as the metering needle would be frozen. The course of action at this point would depend on the power setting you were stuck with but you get the picture.

Truth be told there have been very few cases of dual channel FADEC failures that I am aware of. Hopefully this little lesson will help you make it home to change parts instead of changing pants if it happens to you!

Hope it helps
Max

maxtork 10th Mar 2005 00:35

Sorry :ouch: I know I get diarreah of the mouth sometimes....it seems to have now spread to my typing fingers! lol

TIMTS 10th Mar 2005 01:05

I LOVE Pprune!!

Now..if I could only fly a 130 for a living I would be all set!!

212man 10th Mar 2005 10:35

Maxtork, obviously no doubting what you have said as I'm not a 130 pilot, but would not the flashing GOV caption be an indication of loss of redundency to one or both channels and a steady GOV be a warning of a total (single) channel failure? Why would you have a steady GOV caption as well as the RED one, otherwise? Does it (the steady GOV caption) come on when a loss of input results in retrieval laws being used?

Also, does the back up mode operate automatically or is there a Normal/Backup switch somewhere?

Just applying 155 logic to see how they compare, not disputing your knowledge!

Brasky 10th Mar 2005 13:18

Excellent responses ... give me a few minutes to digest these as I'm certain to have more questions! ;)

Thanks again!

maxtork 10th Mar 2005 14:56

212man

I agree with what you are saying. I would expect that the total loss of one channel would need some sort of indication to the pilot even though it is in essence a loss of redundancy but I found out the hard way that is not the case. If channel A which is the primary fails there is no indication to the pilot as he/she still has a totally functional FADEC control system on channel B so there is no cockpit indication. I have actually asked that this be changed but I am far enough down the food chain not to make a difference just yet. So the indications and there purpose are:

Flashing amber after shutdown (N1<20%) = loss of redundancy

Steady amber during flight= loss of a signal which has no back up in which case we switch to a back up law (mathematical formula that gets us close). The FADEC continues to control the engine but since we are using a back up law the engine may not perform quite as well as normal but is still under automatic control.

Red Gov light anytime during flight= metering valve is frozen and no further fuel flow changes made by the FADEC system. On the EC130 since we have the EBCAU system, the output from the FADEC comuter that turns on the Red gov light also goes to the EBCAU to activate it which turns on the Amber GOV light. With this in mind if the system is working properly you should never get a red GOV light without the amber as this would mean the FADEC is not controling the engine nor is the EBCAU!!

I don't work with the EC155 much so I dont remember if it has a dual channel or single channel system (I know the EC155B has the dual channel Arriel 2C2 engine but not sure about the 2C1 powered aircraft). This could be where the difference comes into play. If you would like I can check to see if this same caution warning display methodology applies to the 155's as well. Turbomeca is pretty good about using the same ideas for all their systems but those little changes and assumtions are the ones that bite you!

Max

212man 10th Mar 2005 15:18

Maxtork
Thanks, sounds similar but with differences.

On both 155 models (B has the 2C1 and the B1 has the 2C2) if there is a loss of signal for which there is redundency, and so no effect on governing performance, the flashing GOV caption is used, with similar logic to what you have described. It flashes because it will be sitting amongst a load of other captions, normally, on shutdown.

If a signal is lost for which there is no redundency and a back up, or retrieval law, is incorporated, the steady GOV caption comes on and indicates there may be some degradation in governing performance. You could still have both channels working though (yes, it's dual channel).

If there are multiple input failures, or somehow the actual FADEC it self fails, and the FADEC can no longer function, the metering valve freezes and the Red GOV caption comes on if you are in a B model (pre back up mod) or an amber FADEC FAIL caption on the CAD if you are in a B1 or a B with the mod fitted. In the first case, that's it, the engine is frozen and will probably need shutting down for landing to prevent overspeed. In the second case, the back up switch is used to operate the EBCAU and a normal landing can be maded without abrupt power changes.

maxtork 10th Mar 2005 15:41

212man

I wouldn't argue with you on this one. Like I said I don't get to play with the 155's much at all so I don't keep track of all the goodies on them. What you say though sounds normal. I still wish the 130 was set up the same as the 155 as you describe it where you would get an indication if you lose one channel.

Max

SANAE1249 29th Apr 2005 12:06

EC 130 B4 - Increased Baggage Compartment
 
I am looking for info on the STC/Mod for increasing the baggage
compartment size on the B4, similar to the mod on the B2,B3. I have received one picture but have no spec's on performance implication or volume gained.

Need it to convince my boss that it's worth upgrading to. He is sold on EC120 Colibri luggage space, but does not understand the implication of payload versus range. Typical 4 Gholfbags/or luggage for 4 international travellers.

ECL_FTE 29th Apr 2005 13:09

SANAE1249,

I guess you're talking about the Cargo Pods for the EC130-B4.
This option has been developped and approved by Eurocopter Canada. It's currently STC in Canada (SH03-33) and in the US (SR2016NY).

There is no performance penalty (rate of climb, cruise, hover). It's compatible with the LH sliding door and the increase of volume is 0.12 cubic meter (approx). TOTAL is now 0.245 + 0.12 = 0.365 cubic meter.

The big advantage is that the cargo compartment becomes more or less a cube. So you can carry bulky luggage. For info you can take the 2 forward seats and put them in one cargo pod. It fits !

Mr Selfish

You\'re right for the AS350 Cargo Pods (not compatible with sliding door). However the EC130 Cargo Pods are.

mickjoebill 30th Apr 2005 15:13

Am I right in thinking that if you remove the rear door for filming then pilots door has to be removed too?

Not ideal for some filming assignments...


Mickjoebill

widgeon 30th Apr 2005 16:12

If I recall correctly one point of the locking mech for the front door engages with the sliding door. What does the RFM say ?.

ECL_FTE 2nd May 2005 17:33

mickjoebill, widgeon

Are we still talking about the EC130 or AS350 ?

Mickjoebill: you're wrong for operation with sliding door removed. Operations with RH sliding door removed is approved on both type with or without front pilot door installed.

AS350B3 Vne with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door off is 100 KIAS. with RH sliding door off and RH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.

EC130B4 Vne with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door off is 90 KIAS. with LH sliding door off and LH pilot door on Vne is 110 KIAS.

Now for the EC130 with ECL (Eurocopter Canada) Cargo Pod installed, the sliding door slides on the pod. The rail is relocated on the pod making the sliding door compatible with the pod.

SANAE1249 7th Jun 2005 07:14

Does anybody have any pictures of a EC 130B4 flying with this STC implemented? I have received some close-up pictures of the pods fitted on an aircraft, but would like to see some taken from different aspects. Any contact details of owner/operators will be greatly appreciated.

ECL_FTE 7th Jun 2005 15:33

SANAE1249

I'll PM you right now...

TBM700 25th May 2007 22:50

EC 130 Corner
 
Hi buddys,

Is anybody of us able to provide some tips about EC130. I am thinking about things like shortcuts, or Excel files able to calculate weight and balance, or electronic flight manual, and so on.

Is there any EC130 users association in the world ?

Rgds.

Nemo'

3top 26th May 2007 15:50

To the GOV lights.

Assuming that the B3 and B4 share the same powertrain and controls.
On the latest Transition course manual (stamped 02.Oct.2006) for the B3:

A red GOV light means "Major governor failure"
Actions:
Emergency mode automatically self-engages.
(Yellow)GOV illuminates.
....and so on

A yellow GOV light means "Minor FADEC failure"
Action:
Governing function degraded: Avoid abrupt power changes .....


3top

maxtork 27th May 2007 19:31

3 Top,

The new style B3 with the 2B1 engine is axactly like the B4. Identical powertrain sans a few input differences from the airframe side. This is a good way to identify your actions in the case of a gov issue in flight. Since the new B3 and the 130 are dual channel and totally fly by wire EC installed a thrid back up system called the EBCAU. In the case of a single channel failure you will get nothing as it is considered a loss of redundancy and indicated after shut down. If you lose a signal to the DECU that has no back up then the system switches to a back up law. Basically it assumes a conservative number to replace the actual value that is missing. In this case it gives you the steady amber gov light in flight. This means things will work as advertised but it may be slow to respond or possibly not produce full N1 speed if asked. In this case...keep going but dont try to land on top of Everest!

If you get a dual channel failure you will imediately get the red gov light. This means the stepper motor is frozen in place. The same out put from the DECU that turns on that red light energizes the EBCAU and sets it into motion to govern fuel flow. Once it is activated it send s a signal to the panel to illumintate the amber gov light which is your indication that you are once again flying in the degraded mode. Like you said no abrupt power changes.

If for some reason you get the red gov light and no amber light then you have a problem. At this point nobody is driving and you may be stuck with the power setting you have at the time. I've yet to hear of it happening but be aware of how the system works so you can react appropriately.

Max

3top 27th May 2007 23:31

Engine Control by Wire..... thank you, Sir!
I don't want to know how it "feels" to Fly-by-wire in a helo (NH90).
All current off - and you are not even a Rotor-glider, ....just a rock! :E

3top

corella killer 7th Dec 2007 11:30

Ec130
 
Hi Can anyone give us any feedback on to Pro's and Con's of the EC130 Mainly any maintenance issues any comments would be greatly appreciated

B Sousa 7th Dec 2007 15:02

Thats a pretty big question. If your an EC130 driver, what are you looking for?
My experience is that as a tour aircraft its a great machine over the Bells. If I had VIPs I might go for a B407 or the A119. Cant comment on it as a sling ship.
Maintenance issues wont be much different than having an A-Star/AS-350.
Get some specific questions and Im sure some will help you out.

Dis-Mystery of Lift 7th Dec 2007 18:53

Gidday here is my 10 cents worth,

Pro's

Great Scenic ship
Pax love the front two seats
Fadec and VEMD makes life easy

Con's

Eurocopter and Turbomeca support is shit!!
No baggage room(When carrying 7 people away for two nights)
Have to offload gas for people
Cant carry more than 60% gas when full pax when operating out of Heliports and confines.(Just over 1 hour gas)
Will run out of cyclic and pedal with wind on right hand rear quarter,Heavy and less than 30% gas.

Other than that it's great!!!

Senior Pilot 7th Dec 2007 20:13

corella killer,

Welcome to Rotorheads ;)

We have a thread already with some information that you are asking, EC130 here.

Good luck :ok:

corella killer 8th Dec 2007 09:09

EC130
 
Thanks lads mainly sniffing around for any common breakdown problems abnormal wear and tear associated with the machine as it will be working in remote bush area's in Australia and PNG primarily scenic opps but 3 months of fires and lift opps per year

widgeon 8th Dec 2007 14:35

is the weight restriction due to engine or transmission limits ( I would suspect transmission as they have put ever more powerful engines in without major redsign of the drive train ).

Dis-Mystery of Lift 8th Dec 2007 22:26

Bascically you have a B3 that is heavier,wider and with a Fenestrom.Bascically the B3 fill it up with pax and fuel and do 130 to 140 kias.The B4 fill it up with pax OR Fuel and do 110kias.Also when flying by your self dont expect great airspeed as you will reach the forward limit of the cyclic will before MCP.The Ec130 is a passengers machine not a pilots!


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