Helicopter Pilots Salaries
 

I know a recent thread went on at length about salaries and what level they should be at, but I have been asked to research current salary levels with a view to overhauling the system we have in place at the moment here at the Lancashire Police Air Support Unit. This has come about due to the minimal response (3) to our recent job vacancy advertised in Flight International. I'm looking for information principally from the Public Transport and Corporate sectors in the UK, on Line Pilot and Chief Pilot salaries, together with variations caused by the possession of an IR or specialised working environment. If you could respond in the form of PM, anonymously if you prefer, it would be appreciated. With sufficient data I'll publish the results which will hopefully be of benefit to others.

Salary survey
 

Here's a link that may help...



http://http://brian.hudson.home.mchs...ales/index.htm

Try www.pilotjobsnetwork.com. You should get some info there

response to info requested
 

Dear NLJ,

Please read your PM's, I have just sent you an Email.

Best regards

Rotorvation:ok:

………So the Direct Employment “honeymoon” is over and the police bean counters have decided to ignore the maxim that 'you only get what you pay for' and are now trying to get their pilots even more cheaply.

When it came along a few years ago (carried along in the shirt tails of “Best Value”) direct employment originally saved the Feds cash while at the same time giving their experienced, loyal pilots a much needed salary boost when compared to their contractor pay.

Now direct employers are reining in on costs with veiled threats to their pilot workforce to lump it otherwise the air support units (and thus the pilots jobs) could be at stake! (even though the pilots salaries are only a small part of the overall cost)

It is even rumoured some units presently changing to direct employment are going to offer the pilots packages that will be lower than their present contractor remuneration!

This is indeed a sorry state for the onshore industry to be in.

‘Offshore’ got it right in 2001 and 2005; professionally led pay negotiations with benchmarking against the fixed wing sector. ( Even so, as of last week in Aberdeen, where in 2007 for the first time a line pilot will break through the £100k ceiling, it is rumoured that Bristows are still short of 19 pilots and CHC are short 24!)


NLJ. If its any help to you in your police beancounter negotiations, I understand the CAA have recently engaged consultants to carry out a “census” of commercial pilots salaries in the UK, in all sectors of the industry both fixed and rotary wing. I think the results are due soon.

Lancs ASU Job
 

Didn't actually see the advert but, being nosey, what was the package offered.

Bertie, nail hit firmly on the head methinks!

So much for employee loyalty (again). Eh, Bertie?
A few years ago it was a case of the employers telling pilots that they made no profit for the company - the only profit was in engineering and maintenance. At the same time they were also telling the engineers that no profit was made from their efforts - it was only made through pilotage. You know who I mean...

With the market being as it is, how do the police possibly hope to attract pilots for even less money whilst still demanding relatively highly experienced pilots? It's ridiculous to tell pilots they are putting the whole operation at risk by merely expecting a competitive salary.

IIRC, the whole business case for having ASUs in the first place centered around saving money, by saving man hours on ground searches.

Then direct employment was seen as best value, saving even more money..

Perhaps the Chief Constables should apply for charitable status for ASUs..... :rolleyes: (no, I'm not serious).

Police budgets and hence salaries are not dictated by “bean-counters” but by politicians as are all public sector salaries. Therefore, public sector and private sector salaries are not comparable.

The short term nature of public spending means that the “honeymoon period” will be about half as long as a term of office! Savings made in Year 1 by Direct Employment will, ipso facto, be forgotten about by Year 4 when the squeeze on budgets becomes greater. Rises in Council Tax are answerable to the electorate; rises in private sector salaries are answerable to shareholders only.

Public Sector salaries are used by the Chancellor as a tool for keeping down inflation. Inflation too high; public sector salary rises 2% for example when the rest of the private sector workforce can enjoy say, 5%.

As for ASUs not being able to fill posts, I suspect it’s not just a matter of salary but a genuine shortage of qualified people. I doubt whether there are any suitably qualified and experienced pilots on the dole at the moment, therefore anyone who may be suitable for the role would have to leave another job. This would probably involve relocation for some which may not be feasible for some due to other commitments.

So, the other approach to filling pilot vacancies should come from training those with less experience which is what other professions do!

Cheers

Whirls

PS- Bertie, you’ve spelt bean counters incorrectly, it should be spelt “those wonderful, lovely people in the Finance Department”.

Whirls

"PS- Bertie, you’ve spelt bean counters incorrectly, it should be spelt “those wonderful, lovely people in the Finance Department”."


Don't you mean Abacus Wan&ers

Impress to Inflate, you obviously don't know what Whirls does for a living then? lmao:ok:

Never, ever p!$$ off an accountant.

If you prick us, do we not bleed,
If you tickle us, do we not laugh,
And if you wrong us, do we not seek revenge.

Cheers

Whirls

Whirls,


I think it will be much cheaper in the long run for the police to pay the benchmarked rate for experienced (twin, night, mountain, nvg, crm, bad wx, low level,etc) single pilot captains (available now from the 'usual source', for the right pay) than to set up their own training schools!

Regards, BT

Bertie Thruster

I'm pretty certain you're right - but hey "shy kids get now sweets". How about a serving Police Officer (17ys) with low hour CPL(H) and IR(H) - not quite the 'usual source' but got to be somewhere in the ball-park and I know two of them?

R1Tamer

Yes probably but since when did the public sector use common sense when it comes to saving money? Training budget vs salary budget? Different departments, different "pots".

Cheers

Whirls

You need to factor in that the FW market is picking up, and ex-mil RW guys can easily apply for the RAFCARS BA scheme (or Managed Path) - which requires 1500 hours of qualifying time, easily reached by those on their normal exit point. BA is not the only employer to be perfectly happy taking people on with low FW hours into the RHS.

It's a very different job, certainly, but a growing number of my ex-mil RW colleagues are now in the LHS of a big jet and very happy with the Ts and Cs.

Oh dear, the thread slipped down to page 3! :8

Hi NLJ,

I wondered if there was anything that you can tell us from the data you have gathered so far. I would assume that the data has been broken down to differentiate between corporate and police work, two different kettles of fish I think.

Also a breakdown of rates at urban and rural forces, 24 hour units and joint HEMS/police units would give a more detailed picture.

As far as I am aware direct employment rates for police line pilots range from £45k (rural) to £63k (urban).

re:Salaries
 

SilsoeSid,

The info is trickling in very slowly, when I get enough to publish something of value I will do so.
If there is anyone out there who wants to PM me then please do. Any information given will be treated as confidential.

NLJ.

I made the jump from heli to fixed wing just over 2 years ago. I was a tri/tre, sp ir on the ec135 for a large on shore operator. I am now a line training captain for a major fractional jet operator (fill in the gaps if you like). I enjoyed flying the ec135 and the people I worked with were a great bunch, but I also work with a great bunch of people now. I also now have a stable roster, more time off, t and c's which overall are as good or better, oh and including my per diems my salary is roughly double.

When I started flying onshore commercial I brought with me around 5800 experience 4000 of that on heavy twin rotary, day/night, nvg and ifr. The simple facts are that if you want quality people with good experience the pool is getting smaller. The north sea pays well, the asu/air ambulance sector does not, I do not see it ever reaching North Sea levels, but it needs to get a lot better if it going to attract the right sort of people into a satisfying but also very demanding part of the helicopter world.

Sorry if this seems a little off topic but I think that guys in the on shore market are getting quite a lot less than they are worth.

KIIT,
Not off topic at all IMO - absolutely on the button it seems to me. It is all about making comparisons, against a series of factors and elements that go to make up a job and the people that do it.
I believe there are signs that the onshore parapublic hele business is already lowering its standards, in terms of the required experience for pilots they are taking on. I wonder how long it will be before we see a sad result arising from those undesirable changes.
I am aware of at least 1 very scary "near miss" at night which has resulted in the "passengers" at a base insisting that a pilot was removed from the roster. He had very limited experience of both night flying and twins. I just hope that such things are always caught at that point and nothing more serious occurs........
It has been suggested on threads here and elsewhere that the new PITO framework will involve substantial rises in the rates that contractors charge their customers for police pilotage. I wonder whether any of those rises will be seen in the wage packets of the pilots. I am not holding my breath personally, but that would be the rational and fair outcome.
Helinut

Simple for the customer then isn't it.

Employ your own pilots, pay them a little more than they are already on, after all they will be getting paid more than before, and the savings will grow exponentially.

Tea and medals for the bean counters! Sorry, “those wonderful, lovely people in the Finance Department”.

If the pilots don't like it, 'because we can lower the required standards and someone will always be available', they can make their own choice.

It would seem to some that the view of some employers is the same as a saying we had in 660 Sqn,

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1...sid/660zap.jpg

Two pages and still no numbers given!

Come on guys, let's us know what coin you are earning so the rest of us can get jealous. :}

NLJ;

Check your PMs. The figures are as accurate as I can get.

VH.

Anything to report yet NLJ ?

Hi all

Nationally speaking what is the standard hourly rate paid for a new FI H.

Many thanks.

Progress Report
 

To SilsoeSid and everyone else who may be waiting, I'll have something to post by the end of next week.

NLJ

LPlates,

I think an average hourly rate would be about £35-40 per flying hour i.e. you don't get paid if student doesn't show, or weather's bad, or briefing etc.

Cheers

Whirls

"If you prick us, do we not bleed,"
 

Would someone else PLEASE make the joke so that I'm not expelled. Again.

What joke Gerhardt? There's nowt funny about Shylock, The Merchant of Venice and there's equally nowt funny about pilots' salaries! :}

I dunno but, some of them are laughable!

Cheers

Whirls

Well, I thought that we may have had some candid responses to NLJs request. You know, of the "yes I earn ££blah blah" sort of thing.

Sadly, there doesn't appear to be any of that.

Is it because we're all too embarrassed to admit that what we're earning just isn't good enough? None of us will openly publish because we fear ridicule! Well, that tells its own story.

:{

Whirlygig

Many thanks..

Looking to start my FI course soon. Thought I'd check to see what the going rate is.

Lplates

Good point Big Windy,
How about we put up arbitrary figures and we can say less or more?

Police/Hems
Captain/Line pilots
£48,000

Chief Pilots,
£56,000


Corporate
Captain/Line pilot
£52,000

Chief Pilots,
£60,000

Is your salary less or more?


Offshore
Stop laughing! :(

Big Windy, I'm sure most of us would say: "You go first, my friend!"

(Having said that, what I earn is between myself and my employer and not for public viewing).

Does all this make a bit of difference though?

What does it take to get a salary adjustment? Lets say NLJ comes up with a recommended salary for a police line pilot to be say £48K, do we really expect the other forces to increase their pilots salaries?

NLJs unit may get a few more applicants for the vacancy so it would only be that units pilots who benefit, the 'new boy' starting on 48K and the ones already there getting an adjusting raise.

Once this salary of 48k is known, is there really an effective way for another unit to fight the cause for salary increase against those 'managment heel diggers' who will not be 'held to ransom'? You can hear them now...you don't like it... http://library.thinkquest.org/11922/door_animated.gif

There endeth a happy unit! :{

Much less than those figures!! More than 10% less!!

Just about scrape in to the bottom figure if I add my :mad: MIL pension!

Sid,

In my experience, pilot salaries in particular only increase significantly when no-one will do the job for what is on offer. Myself and at least one other poster here were "burned" by the whims of a certain Chief Constable over direct employment issues. We both walked.

The Police have another option - keep the budget the same but make the goal posts wider with regard to minimum experience requirements; that appears to be the preferred option in these days of rampant bean countery.

I only hope the widening goalposts issue doesn't end up with someone in a report somewhere saying, "I told you so!"

Sid,

Sadly, I could already quote one accident where that could easily have been said.

A pilot with high ambitions not backed up by sufficient experience.

But, I'd better not. :oh:

Not to do with skids and a run-on landing by any chance?

It ran on almost vertically........