I wonder how many of those pilots have the "unrestricted JAA ATPL(H)" requested in the N Wales ad?

Hmmm, good thinking Bertie. I haven't seen the published advert but in order to enjoy a JAA ATPL (H) don't you have to have at least 500 hours in a two pilot chopper on your ticket?

A JAA ATPL(H) also requires an IR(H), which seems a bit pointless for a non-IFR helicopter

It specifically states JAA or CAA ATPL(H).
Please lets not let this degenerate into specifics.
It's a job offer - are some of you never happy?
Pilots who have (had) CAA ATPL's are the ones we are looking for. Their time in the industry probably reflects they have/had possession of this relevant qualification in the past and may have transferred to the JAR equivalent.
Does a JAR CPL (H) have 2000 hrs, or would he/she have translated it into an ATPL by then? Aren't IR's compulsory for JAR ATPL's?

Just to clarify: We will take suitable applicants provided they have an unrestricted licence to fly single pilot public transport helicopters in the UK and can demonstrate they comply with the requirements laid down in the advert.

Let's be grown up about this.

TC. All recent ex-mil pilots will only get a JAA CPL(H) if they are not IR, no matter how many thousands of hours they have. So your JAA ATPL requirement limits the field for experienced guys holding JAA licences.

Your reply 44 still does not make it clear whether you require IR or not!


Helinut; For an "unrestricted" JAA ATPL(H) you do require an IR.
It is possible, however, to hold a JAA ATPL(H) without IR, "restricted" to VFR.
eg, if you have converted from a (non IR) CAA ATPL(H)
You would of course need the required multipilot time for such a conversion.

No IR required.

So you might need to delete the "unresticted JAA(ATPL)H" bit in the advert?

Who cares! It's a JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh: And getting that job will make somebodies day.:ok:

BRASSEMUP: I do care. That's why I'm trying to clear the meaning of the job advert.

If you infer in the advert that an IR is required (by stating "unrestricted JAA ATPL") then a lot of those "somebodies" you mention might not even apply!

Hey Bertie.. You seem to be absolutely the wrong stuff so to speak, Knowing TC as I do you will be rumbled in seconds, care or don't care, I wouldn't bother applying if I were you.:}

Hey, Letsby.. you are so absolutely right!

45 Grand!! That would be a significant pay rise for me as a line pilot at Liverpool. I've got an IR, but it is on fixed wing :confused:

£45K is that for a co-pilot job:E

332M

A poorly paid co-pilot:hmm:

It's great fun getting involved in the semantics - isn't that just the nature of Pprune?
Seriously though, I'm sure that TC would love to offer more, far more, having experienced some of the more daunting tasks that N Wales has to offer. Alas, he's bound by the terms laid down by the HR dept.
It's a shame because reading between the lines, the above posts tell me that we're ALL secretly disappointed at the value placed on our experience.
Has anyone got any ideas on how to raise the game for police/HEMS wages across the UK? Direct employment was supposed to make a significant difference, I don't see that it has. Am I wrong?

I must be a bit sheltered Big Windy, but that wage IS a significant rise compared to my police line pilot salary. The benefits are not bad either. OK, you will never be a millionaire in this game, but if money is your goal then get up to aberdeen and do some earning. I like my shift pattern, the work can be busy but isn't anywhere near as difficult as military flying and you have a life in the area you wish to live. The downside is less money, less is not always worse....

Lifestyle, JT2, lifestyle. The money isn't everything. ;)

It's when they offer you a pay drop, you know it's definitely time to move on.

(At least two of us here did that...)

I guess you're right JT2. Maybe I am losing sight of THAT picture. Looking a bit wider though, no matter how you rationalise the situation it still boils down to the fact that we're all undervalued. The real problem; we're hamstrung by the fact that there are so many police/HEMS operators competing against eachother and driving down prices. That makes the margins in this game very tight and low margins means poor wages. Why should DE units offer much if they think there's still a reasonable chance they'll be able to poach someone from one of the companies? A little of me wants to see all in-shore operators struggle to recruit. That's the only way we'll see an improvement in our lot.

True, I do know that a number of units are investigating the possibilities of direct employ because of price rises. That may affect pay rates.... Who knows??
I agree with you about being undervalued, but as long as there are mugs like me who will accept low wages, pay will not change.

Is that as a timeshare salesman or drug dealer? ;)