Support
 

Anyone who fancies a day in London (or a longer career in aviation) PLEASE turn up and support Ian. I have to work tomorrow so not available but may be able to be there later in the week. DennisK, it would be great to see you there, if you can make it!

MBJ I assume you mean not necessarily.
If so, I couldn't agree more. I spent many years challenging them. ;)

Probably to a proposition that a line has to be drawn somewhere and, based on the CAA's interpretation of such stats as are available, 60 is a reasonable age at which to draw it.
And, as we all know, statistics can be interpreted in many different ways.
Statistics show that of people who eat, very few survive.
I can't comment on the actual case but I wonder (generally):

• Is there any evidence of a safety problem in those countries which do allow pilots over 60 to conduct single-crew PT flights.
• What is the evidence regarding 60+ pilots in two-crew ops becoming incapacitated in flight?
• Pilots over 60 are permitted to fly privately. Is there any evidence that they have more accidents due to medical incapacitation? (And not forgetting that, unike professional pilots, PPLs don't have to be sufficiently fit to hold a JAR Class 1 medical.)
• What percentage of all accidents where a pilot was over 60 have been found to be caused by pilot incapacitation?
• Is there any evidence of a difference, or any significant difference, between the 60+ group and those under 60?

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I expect someone will ask those and similar questions, and I'd be interested to hear the answers.


FL

I wonder what the statistics are for motorists?

Cheers

Whirls

Especially those motorists who have to pass a medical in order to drive particular classes of vehicle. eg HGV and public transport.

However, they may be fit enough to pass their required medical but not necessarily sufficiently fit to hold a JAR Class 1 so the comparison would not be like for like.

Ian needs all the support that can be mustered. Regret I have to go back to work so will be unable to attend any more.
PLEASE - those of you who have the time available get your butts to Kingsway.

Tribunal Times
 

I have tried to get into London on two occasions but due to other commitments have missed the trains that I feel would have been suitable. However, could someone who has already attended the Tribunal provide some info on the times that the Tribunal sits/adjourns or can one go in and out as one pleases? Any advice would be much appreciated - thanks.

They kick off at 10:00hrs break for lunch around 12:00hrs and I assume they restart 13:00hrs ish. I went on Monday were it all came to a close at 12ish. You can turn up anytime they are sitting and just creep in.

That was quick - thank you Brilliant Stuff. I'll get there yet!

Good question FL but I don't think the Criminal Aviation Authority would be bothered with details like that. Do you ?

I don't know how comprehensive the Griffin accident database is (http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk) but I could only find one accident due to pilot incapacitation. It was in 2000 and the pilot was 43 !

I hope the CAA don't want to stop 43 year olds flying cos that's me screwed ;)

John

PS the reason why the pilot was incapacitated - he got stung by a wasp !

Hi Whirls,

The ONS RTA statistics main page is :
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nscl.asp?ID=8094
but in typical government department tradition, the statistics are not the most detailed I have ever seen. For example for our purposes you can find out how many over sixties died on the roads but not what caused the accident - they may have all been run over by teenage joy riders.

The DFT statistics are located at :

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics...b/2007edition/

This includes (of relevence to this thread) transport accident statistics and aviation but I couldn't find anything relevent there either.

John

Ian's support in Kingsway
 

Thanks for the further notes.

MBJ. I'm booked at present for Friday, but think it may get cancelled. Shan't know til late Thursday. If at all possible - will be there. If not I'll make it next week for sure.

Please keep the daily reports going.

Dennis K

Johned0

The Griffin Database includes all the Uk Accidents and Incidents given to me by the CAA last year, updated in November. I know of at least one which was missing, back in the 80s but didn't involve pilot incapacitiation.

The Accident Factors including Pilot Incapacitation i've added to the database after reading each accident investigation report back to Jan 1998. I will go back further when time permits.

Hope This Helps.

Gary

johned0 You may well be right but, in the present context, it's not the CAA that Ian has to persuade.

FL

A colleague dropped by the Tribunal today. The listing of "Evans vs CAA" is too simplistic. There's Ian Evans. And then there's the CAA: barrister, junior, 3 assistants, 2 CAA legals, 3 CAA medical witnesses and 19 box files of evidence and witness statements.

Please, please go and show some support for Ian. The man is fighting the fight with adroitness and charm - and looking fitter than just about anyone in the room.

With his cross-ex finished, it's been CAA witness time and Ian's chance to cross-ex them. The one clear thing is that the CAA is not too good at gathering its own data. They keep relying on old stuff from Australia and the USAF. And even one of their own witnesses was doubting some of the CAA evidence put to him.

The CAA's own UK data seems to run out around 1975. Has anyone paid any attention to all the forms we've filled in over the years ?

Ian v CAA
 

Hallo Ian .. if your'e tuned it ... and others in support. Moved my Friday date around and will be at Kingsway tomorrow, Friday.

Dennis K.

A brief word of thanks to all those who have attended the tribunal this week to support the cause; faced with the multitude across the floor I can't tell you how much of a prop your presence has been.

I'm not allowed to discuss evidence or, probably, much else but suffice to say we're just about finished with their lay witnesses and only have expert witnesses to go on teusday and wednesday. There's lots of other legal stuff too but that would not bear listening to.

We probably won't have a judgement for some time to come, possibly up to two months, which is disappointing.

It's hard to tell but I don't think I've lost this yet! If I were a betting man I'd place a small wager on Evans to win but, please don't raise your hopes.

Ian

Ian's Tribunal hearing
 

Good evening Ian ... I know I said it to you at the hearing today, but God bless you for handling OUR case so well ... cos fellow pilot's. This IS OUR case. I know I couldn't have done nearly so well.

For ppruners, yes please try and get there to Kingsway if at all possible ... just give up one day. Ian ... I'm so glad you felt our presence behind you helped today. For my part I'll make it a couple more days next week.

Won't it be grand for me to be able to write-up a success for common sense ... common sense that is lost on a daily basis with each new pronouncement from this thing we have to call a Government.

Oh ... and we had a banner bearer there today!

Dennis K

Yes thank you Ian for keeping the strength up!!!! Now I hope you are having a relaxing weekend to prepare you for the second half.

I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

Ian,
I was the bloke in the motorcycle gear today. Sorry I could only make it for an hour, but hopefully you know people from all walks of life are supporting you in your fight.

I'll try and pop in before work next week,

Tonge

Quick entry to keep this thread close to the top of Prunery. Will be writing to Daily Telegraph today in the hope of publication.

Keep the faith, guys.