Thanks everyone,

Keep the tips coming please.
My documents are all in a neat file and always up to date.
Someone mentioned VAT and proof of purchase.
Do I have to take copies of my purchase invoice?
And what about VAT where does that fit into the equation?

Thanks in advance

Joel

flying in France
 

I share your experience Oogle, and have always enjoyed flying in France.

I'll be in Troyes some time this weekend en route to Italy.

If you've got your off airport permit, it is worth taking, just in case the weather goes bad.

I've never had issues with the Gendarmes, and like most places around the world, if you are courteous and pleasant, you'll be treated likewise.

Airfield refueling facilities do have a habit of closing for lunch, but you are on holiday, so go with the flow.

Travel light, wear comfortable clothes, take sensible shoes, hat and waterproof coat. Lugging everything from aircraft across apron to Control to taxi to hotel become a pain.

Take some snacks and some fluid, but don't drink too much, especially if you have a small bladder. Make sure you have snacks for when you cannot get any food. Avoid chocolate - it always gets on the seats and on your trousers.

Have an "aircraft bag" with all the documents, maps, stuff and keep it one place. Take it with you when you leave the aircraft - every time - since the one time you leave it in the aircraft you WILL need just one map, one phone, one bit of info that then involves a 20 minute hassle trek back to the aircraft.

Designate jobs between yourselves, and stick to them.Tasks like DI-ing the aircraft, flightplanning, booking the taxis, sourcing the hotels, chatting up the receptionists and so on. Otherwise the whole journey degenerates into committee rule, and you will take ages to get to/from the airport and back in the air.

Try to stick to a timetable, and in particular don't start winding each other up about the weather. Having said that, avoid AT ALL COSTS "get-there-itus". Remember that after 6 hours in the air, probably with a very early start, you will be tired and not neccessarily at your best.

On my trips, we always have a discussion first as to who is in charge (if you've ever flown a 4 -seat aircraft with 4 qualified pilots you'll know what I mean). Having established this, we also agree that if any one is uncomfortable with the conditions, they are to make this quite clear. We land as soon as safely possible if the Captain is unable to re-assure the person who is uncomfortable.


"French" info have always been really helpful.

There are a lot of military corridors to cross, -- most you can avoid by flying below them, but a quick call to "French" info will tell you if they are active or not (just like our Danger Zones).

Joel, try and get into the Alps for a bit of mountain flying if the weather is Cavok. It is truly stunning this time of year.

Enjoy.

Big Ls

Thanks again guys,

I'm going to make a list of all the advice and make sure I follow it.
I run a heli blog so I'll put a commentary on there if I can.

Thanks for all the advice and if there's any more, keep it coming as I've a week left before we go.

The heli is having a 50 hour early in readiness.

Joel

Lots of good advice here, but don't let it become a big deal - flying in France is pretty relaxed and straightforward most of the time.

Particularly if you're stretching fuel, do try and call to confirm the airfield does actually have it - don't rely on the books. A 12.00 - 14.00 lunch for airfield and fuellers is common.

Frankly a lot of French ATC is very casual compared with the UK, but they are usually helpful, partly because there is so little GA traffic compared with the UK. On trying to get a CTA transit clearance don't be surprised to be ignored for a while - and then dismissed with a "leave my frequency" as soon as you're clear of the area! Unlike the UK, the Flight Information Services eg Paris Info seem to have very good radar and will know exactly where you are.

Military zone crossing will keep you concentrating, though these tend to be very much 9-5 Mon-Fri only, with auto-info services out of hours.

I wouldn't worry too much about landing off-airport without a heli-surface permit. I did it for years with no problems before getting one - which is a bit of an epic, btw. Paperwork important though - there are plenty of Douane looking for something to do!

Oh and most importantly, try not to look too astonished when your landing fee is a fiver for landing at somewhere the size of Coventry!

Thanks Rotorspeed:ok:

Lots of information/advice and some excellent pictures in this thread




FL


FL,

Thanks for the reminder! I've merged the threads now, so the link will lead back here ;)

Splot

Flying Lawyer

Thanks for the link to the thread.
Loads of useful stuff.
Much appreciated

Joel:ok:

The other months are for strikes :rolleyes:

Habilitation a Utiliser les Helisurfaces
 

The regulations have changed in regards to this and is as follows.

Article 17 of the decree of 06 May 1995 concerning aerodromes and other locations used by helicopters has been modified by the decree of 27 May 2008.

This states that for the initial application of a Habilitation a Utiliser les Helisurfaces the pilot must prove s/he has a minimum of 70hrs as a helicopter pilot as well as a declaration of post-licence training in a "Zone Exigue" (Controlled Zone.. i am thinking) issued by a flying instructor, indicating that said pilot has undertaken said training.

The following are exempt from the additional training in the "Zone Exigue" if:-

- Holders of a professional helicopter pilots licence
- Holders of a private pilots licence who can prove they have a minimum of 300 hours.

Can any one of you please clarify to me what the term "Zone Exigue" means please, because i am translating this as a cramped zone.... could this mean "confined area" or "CTR"

Regards

MD :confused:

"Zone exigue" means a small confined area. This new article to the decree is a result of a tragic accident which took place in January 07 near Arles, when a PPL with an Alouette 2 missed his take-off from a restaurant helipad and killed 3 or 4 people on the ground. The pilot had less than 100 hours and media coverage of this accident lead to a reflexion about permits to land on non-airfields/privates places. So now, if you want to land near your friends' house ie. you have to be a PPL with more than 300 hours or be a PPL with a special confined area training (5 hours) issued by an approved DGAC examiner. If you have a CPL, no changes. But I don't know what's about a foreign PPL, but being a french pilot an knowing how our administration is helping us, I would certainly take this 5 hours course if you don't have the 300 hours on your PPL, just in case of...
Hope it helps, cheers,

minimo

Thanks for the translation, that was all i was after here, my French fails me. here, but i wanted to post this to just update fellow rotorheads on the regs regarding the helisurfaces permit.

Regards

MD :ok:

Boys and Girls

Just got back from my expedition over the water.
I had a fantastic experience and your hints and tips were particularly useful/
We had no issues whatsoever with red tape etc.

You can read all about it here if you want. http://www.jetbox.wordpress.com

Excellent read. During my summer vacation last year i did visit Biarritz via Freiburg (EDTF), Dolé, crossed Lyon Bron, down the Rhone valley to Avignon, heading south to the coast passing Montpellier, Pezenás, Beziers, Narbonne to Carcassone where we stayed for the night (planned stop) and next morning via Lourdes to Biarritz.

Just one week later back via south of Bordeaux to Limogés straight north to the Loire river heading east to Versailles and to Issy for another stop. Next morning then via Reims to Spa in Belgium and after a coffee at Manoir de Lésbioles back home.

(The places where we did refuel are underlined - besides the last link of course...)

All in a B206 III (~17 hours of total flight time) and it was really fun and quite helpful to learn about the handling of the helicopter as we were five POB with little extra weight besides fuel.

I always felt comfortable and welcome at every single place and at no times i had any difficulties whatsoever. :ok:

Actually, talking about it brings back some really good memories ;)

Glad you enjoyed it.
I have done plenty of flying over the years, but the trip was one of the best things I've ever done.

I guess you have to be a pilot to understand why though.
My wife thinks I'm bonkers.

She always says "Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to go sleazy jet?"

I think she's bonkers!!! :ok:

Off airport landing permits in France
 

Please could somebody advise me where I can get the off airport landing permit for France, that I have seen from this, and previous threads is needed if wanting to land a private sites?

Nimco.

Check your PMs

Nimco82

Perhaps you should read back through the whole thread....:=:=:=

Also make sure you don't fall into the requirements of needing to prove 5hrs of confined area training, should you have less than 300hrs and be a PPL!

MD :{

Everyone on this thread keeps mentioning the Heli-Surfaces Permit, but no one has mentioned from where one can get the necessary form. Please can someone tell me where to get the form so I can fill it in?
Thank you!

look at post 16 on this thread...

Thanks toptobottom, I see them now.:O My skype was hiding the numbers last time!

FIS/Basic Service?
 

I'm heading off to France for a week's touring this weekend. Have done the trip before a few years ago and have my helisurface permit tucked away safely in the flight bag. But I was wondering if there has been any change in ATC services as we have seen in the UK this year? I'm likely only to want a basic service or maybe a traffic service, but what are these known as in France today? To be clear, I will be requesting these in English, not French as all the en route controllers speak perfectly good English.

I've just got back from France and if anything, our French cousins seem to have improved their service (they even reply to English accents now :})

You need to pretend the new ATSOCAS rules haven't happened yet i.e. ask for a FIS/RIS.

Have a great trip!

TTB

Thanks TTB. Made it down to the South of France yesterday. Rather hazy across the Channel and a bit claggy in places as we flew down, but you were right. ATC very helpful and those lady controllers do have exceptionally mellifluous voices; all added to the pleasure of the trip!

Good stuff - weather's looking good for the 2nd half of this week, so Mrs TTB and I will be scooting over for one of our regular trips to the Red Fox and Restaurant Perard in LT one evening! Helitech first though :ok:

Hi Guys, 2 questions if you would be so kind.

Firstly I was wondering if there is a more up to date way of applying for the "Habilitation a Utiliser les Helisurfaces" yet? over the internet etc... or if it still needs to be done by pigeon. yawn.

Secondly I'm planning to make my first proper venture through france soon (Only been to L2K), hoping to fly to Geneva & around Mont Blanc. I've read a fair amount about the military corridors, and planning considerations with regards to fuel and opening hours etc... but where some airspace around Geneva has a lower limit labelled "3500 / 1000 ASFC" am I right in assuming it is which ever value is higher? i.e. TMA base of Alt 3500' until reaching terrain heights of 2500'+after which it follows the terrain at 1000' ASFC?

I'm hoping to land at La Cote (a few miles north east of Geneva) and would like to join from the north - where the terrain drops away very quickly from 6000' on the TMA boundary, which is partly why I want to be completely sure of the understanding in order to build an accurate mental picture of the airspace surrounding Geneva.

Thanks :O
Aucky

Always worth looking at the french SIA CIVILE website, as they have a good NOTAM section (not just for France) and a good chart showing the activity of the military low fly corridors (AZBA Charts - a picture speaks a thousand words). Plus it is all free and available in English.:ok:

You can also access the AIP and print out any aerodrome charts you might need for the flight if you dont have them.

The lowest point of the Jura is to the north, around the area where La Paz DME used to be. That will bring you out at the north end of Lac Geneve. Just beware of the Nuclear power station / ZITs to the south west of Geneva if you get forced that way due to weather, as busting those will mean the French authorities will bust you, and poss your licence. You are correct about the controlled airspace heights / altitudes. Basically stops you needing to low fly to remain clear of the airspace above. Geneva Info are really helpful, although you may need to telephone the local BRIA(french) to close your flight plan (if you have one and have landed in France) and landing off airfield.

Hyds Out - Thanks for the confirmation on airspace limits, and info on the powerstation / ZIT's to the south west, I shall have a look on my chart when I get home to identify these areas, and do my best to avoid them :ok:

I'm familiar with the SIA Civile website but I hadn't seen the AZBA Charts, so thanks again for the heads up. It's a great help.

Aucky

Aucky

Helisurface Permit

Just renewed my with Paris, all by e-mail. So no, pigeon not longer needed. They have e-mail and accept pdf scans.

d3

D-3,got the address please ?

Helisurface
 

Sycamore, see PM

For the helisurface permit - start here

Et violá!

Like between a violin and a cello!

Helisurface Permit
 

Great news that you can apply on line for the permit. Traditionally they can take quite a long time to come by post - the all time record I heard of was almost two years! Not sure how long they take for on line applications and would be interested to find out.

I am on my third permit now and wouldn't be without it having had it inspected three times. The last time by customs officers who flew into the hotel where I was staying. All very friendly as the paperwork was in order but they did say that fines can start at €3,000 going up to €50,000 and the helicopter may also be impounded.

The wording on the application form is still slightly confusing and can lead to the belief that the Permit relates to only one particular helicopter or just one location. This is not the case as the Permit is issued in the name of the person applying and does not mention any particular helicopter, or at least my permit does not.

If you don't own your own helicopter just put down the details of a helicopter that appears in the copy of your log book pages which you send to them.

Under region or area I put Toute de France and under purpose Tourism.

Bon chance.

Got the permit through in about 6 weeks... all applied for by email (with a few scanned documents) :ok:

Do many people land heli's at Troyes? I'm hoping to land there en-route to the Alps as I understand the fuel system takes cards there, but in the AIP plate (and Delage) helicopters are not indicated in the 'Activities' section. I know people who have landed there... In which case I assume they are not prohibited. Does anyone know the purpose of the section at the top of the plate, and if I should expect to encounter any difficulties? https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.LFQB.pdf

Also with regards to the providing confirmation of VAT paid on the aircraft, is that a common check? Don't know where to start looking for that... guess I should get onto the accountants, are they looking for a receipt of sorts, or should there be a certificate or something similar? :confused:

Landing at Troyes & VAT etc
 

Have landed at Troyes many times and always found them polite and helpful. They have a nice cafe too. Might be worth taking ground wheels or risk getting a Gallic stare from fixed wing pilots queing up for fuel.

I always carry a copy of the original helicopter purchase invoice with me which shows VAT on it. Only been asked for it once at Le Touquet by a bunch of Douannes who stepped out of a Squirrel and who clearly had me down as a villain.

Can anyone offer guidance on completing the Helisurface permit please ?: I have found / followed the various links to the website:

Site Internet de la Préfecture de Police - Aviation civile

At the PROPRIETAIRE : As I currently SFH and don't have a particular aircraft I use - do I leave this blank ?

For the SECTEUR GEOGRAPHIQUE CONCERNE : Can I just put "France" ? At this moment I don't have a particular trip in mind, but with friends properties in France, and feeling the need to explore - I want to get the permit in good time to cover as much as possible.

Thanks for any help.

You can put down any tail number providing it appears in the last two pages of your log book (the cert is for the driver, not the machine).

For area, you can say 'All of France'.

Thanks TTB :D

My application was equally vague as I had no specific trip in mind... The permit took approx 3-4 weeks to arrive. For anyone hoping to make the submission the rather long winded email address to send it to is:

dtpp-sddep-brep-transports-exception...erieur.gouv.fr

My application included the form
http://www.prefecturedepolice.interi...lisurfaces.pdf, a scan of my license, passport, and last 2 pages of the log book... no questions asked, et Voila :ok:

I didn't use it in the end on a recent trip to the Alps, but I hope to in the future (now that i've scouted out a few Chateaux's)

For an update & clarification on the French Helisurfaces Permit procedure; I recently received mine. Some general info below as they updated their procedure/criteria in recent years:

- Permit requires 300hrs helicopter or CPL license (with exception below)
- for those with more than 70hrs but less than 300hrs helicopter they require a course of 5hrs training on confined areas landing/takeoff
- for the 5hrs confined area training, they accept written confirmation from a JAA Instructor/Examiner.
- Permit is valid for 10 years

Docs required:
- complete Helisurfaces Authorisation Form
- copy of Pilots License
- copy of Medical
- copy of Passport
- copy of Pilot Logbook (last two pages)

download docs: http://www.prefecturedepolice.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/3089/16591/file/autorisation_helisurfaces.pdf

e-mail to:
[email protected]

Re timeframe, mine involved them corresponding with me on two issues, so took a total of 6 months from start to finish. Being fluent (or having a friend help) in French will be a great help.

* I thank Aucky above for originally providing the e-mail address. After two phone calls to Paris and getting it wrong twice due to my poor French, I didn’t have the heart to call the woman back a third time.

French Heli Surfaces Permit
 

hi All,

does anyone have the full email address where to send this completed form,
i have found other threads with an email address in, but part of it is hidden.
thanks in advance
nelly