Bo 105
 

I can't comment on the machine as a pilot (at this stage I am still flying Robby 22's and dreaming of getting to fly "real" heli :D ), but from a flight paramedic's perspective I would say that although it is adequate for the job it is not ideal. It is not impossible to use a 105 for medevac (there are many still utilised in this role), but I believe that these machines are dedicated EMS helos.

From my point of view, the interior is just a tad too small to be really useful for patient care. Once in the helo, there is no real access to the patient from the waist down. This shouldn't be a problem though, because the patient should have been stabilised prior to loading into the helo. This may become a factor though if the patient has multiple lower limb fractures or has MAST suit in place - both situations in which you need access to the lower limbs.

Medevac is an equipment intensive business, so you should also look at the amount of equipment that the med crews are going to be carrying/ utilising. Once you have the patient and two crew members on board, you will also have the crew's jump bag, an ECG monitor/defibrillator, vital signs monitor, ventilator, and suction unit. Not forgetting that you will need oxygen onboard as well. You may also have (or should have) a few infusion pumps as well. And then the crew will need space to be able to access this equipment readily during flight.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is the time taken to switch from charter to EMS capability. It used to take an average of 45 minutes fo the AMEs to change the Citation that a company that I previously worked for from pax configuration to EMS. Granted, the 105 is not a Citation but I would imagine that it may take a similar amount of time to swop over. If you will only be doing cold cases such as interhospital transfers, then this will probably not be a concern. However, if you are going to be responding to scene calls this will be unacceptable. Hot responses require a dedicated helicopter.

If your company does opt for the 105 then I would take Oogle's advice and go for the CBS or DBS depending on your power needs.That extra fuselage length will make all the difference for your flight medical crew. Personally I would rather have a BK117, or an EC135.

This is just my 2 cents worth and you may get differing opinions from other flight med crews.


---------------
Regards,
Iain

Flightmedic 1
 

Your contribution is basically sound and accurate but for those faced with delivering an EMS service you have to do what you can with what you have got and what you can afford.

When we started the UKs first air ambulance nearly 20 years ago we were presented with a thousand reasons why it wouldn't work with a simple unstretched Bolkow 105 DB. The detractors came in every form but when it came to the crunch we managed extremely well. The DBS upgrade was obviously a step up and the 135 a step more. Training, practice, organisation and good reliable equipment all played their part. We generally did not have to fly more than 20 minutes, 30 at the most if you had a headwind. This gave us some confidence that if the patient was stabilised and prepared before leaving the ground with all necessary equipment to hand then the rucksacks could be left in the back. You worked on the basis that as a VFR service, day only, then if anything dramatic happened then you put down, shut down and sorted it on terra firma. It never happened to me but I can't speak for others.

Role changes for the 105 can be pretty instant if you rely 100% on portable equipment and pre-installed stretcher rails. The lack of on board O2 is a handicap but not a show-stopper.

G

:ok:

Thanks guys. Just the kind of feedback I had hoped for.

It is indeed a matter of what the company can afford, and right now the 105 is it. The machine we are looking at is a CBS. It will not be used much for calls to the scene of an accident. The medical part of it is more getting patients from islands with little or no medical facilities to a bigger island with hospitals. That service is now being covered with an R44, so a 105 would be a huge leap forward.

The companys main concern is the availability of spare parts for such an old machine.
Also, in a CBS with the standard 5 seat layout, if you fill the seats and "light" luggage...how much fuel can you take?
I have been looking at the numbers, but would like some real world input.

Again, thanks a lot guys!!

bo105 training
 

Anyone have an idea where I can get training in a BO105 CBS?
Preferably in the New York area, but will consider anywhere in the US.
Looked into doing the factory course, but not really possible because of dates, and the fact that I need to bring my own machine.

Try contacting ERA or PHI, they both still operate BO105s in the GOM. They have regular transition courses and recurrent training.

HH

Don't bother calling PHI -they will not train outside pilots. How do I know? I called and checked for you, my friend. Shouldn't you be able to receive some training from the people you're buying the aircraft from? At any rate, if you can start a JetRanger twice in a row you should be able to fly away a 105!

thanks guys

I got an email from PHI saying they don't have any aircraft available. Is that just an excuse then?

The people we are buying it from are only selling it for the owner, so don't have any qualified instructors.

Used BO-105 Floats
 

Anyone have any idea where one might obtain a used set of bo-105 pop-outs?
Looked far and wide, but no luck so far...

buy new from dart, today

Your going to be looking far and wide for those. My suggestion is to go to one of the sites for one of the Major Gulf operators and get a phone number for their maintenance types.
PHI (www.phihelico.com ), Air Log/Bristow (www.bristowgroup.com ), If they dont have any they will at least know where you can get some. Make sure you have a fat wallet.
You may also contact HAI to find out which operators may use 105s over water. www.rotor.com

Good Luck.

Base 4 Helicopters in South Africa have two BO-105s equipped with pop-out-floats, which by the looks of it currently seem to be up for sale. Who knows, maybe you can work out a deal with them that you get the floats, minus the chopper(s).

ZS-RNE for sale
ZS-RNO for sale

Oh yes... The solenoids alone will cost some major £$£$£$£$£$£$.

Geez, TIMTS I know you're trying to help your boss outfit his operation on a shoestring but there's something like being too cheap. New floats don't even work properly half of the time. Why don't you draw a line in the sand with your boss and demand that he spends what he has to in order to make this a safe aircraft for the job at hand. I mean, next you'll be asking here on the board for a cheap set of rotor blades, no questions asked. By the way, where are you going to be based out of?

Thanks guys.
Thanks for the heads up on Dart. Looks like that is our solution.

As to you Revolutionary....Yes, I am trying to help start up a company on a limited budget. But I don't see the act of trying to buy a pair of used floats and having them refurbished and certified, as compromising safety. You have no idea what we are trying to do, and the rotorblade comment is uncalled for. I don't know what I have said to make it sound like I am compromising safety.

TIMTS

It doesn't matter if you're a budget startup or established many years.

Good second hand,refurbed and re-certified floats are as good as new for all intents and purposes. Buying new floats is generally left as a last option, if you can't find a decent set of old but good!

Good luck with the operation ! And I hope you never the floats for real:)

170'

timits, one more thing, the apical / dart floats are manual inflation, cyclic release, no solenoids or squibs.
fairly straightforward install, keep in mind you will have the skid extensions as well
dr

TIMTS, I'm not implying that you are compromising safety, hell, a used BO 105 fitted with a used set of floats sounds like the safest thing in the world to me. I'm just saying that when it comes to your emergency equipment you have to be willing to either spend freely or accept a reduced level of safety. Yes, Apicals are great, all mechanical, no solenoids, but there have been quite a few instances in the GOM of floats malfunctioning at the most inopportune moments. And these were factory supplied units maintained and tested to the standards of a large Part 135 operator. You're going to have to test and repack these things at regular intervals, too, you know. Have you budgetted for that? If you're going with the minimum required on all this equipment you're just buying yourself a false sense of security. Even goede vrienden?

BO105 CBS - LS upgrade
 

Could anyone enlighten me upon the origin and location the LS version was manufactured, and who certificated it???
I have a faint recollection these were only manufactured in Canada????
Also if anyone has heard of a 105 being upgraded post factory to the LS???
Cheers,
BR:ok:

Yes, the BO 105 LS was a Eurocopter Canada project, with the production LS A-3 certified in '86 and entering service a year later. Used the same 'odd man out' Allison 250-C28 donk as the 206L-1 LongRanger, an uprated transmission, and has the CBS's stab aug system fitted as standard. Increased MTOW and improved performance, but it had shorter legs and a smaller cabin than the CBS. The final 'Superlifter' external-load variant ('95) featured an improved tail rotor carried over from the BK 117.

I've never heard of a non-LS aircraft being STC'd to LS specs.

I/C

Brett,

The 105LS was only manufactured in Canada the type cert is I believe held by MBB Canada.

It has Allison C28 engines ...has the PAH2 (Bk117) tailboom and uses the FS112 main Xmsn (Vs the FS72 xmsn in the std 105) and upgraded T/R gbox (=Bk117). It has the stretched airframe (per the 105 CBS).

I believe MBB will NOT allow the standard 105 CBS to be upgraded to LS standard ( I could of course be wrong!).

Cheers :hmm:

Seems the Nigerian Police Air Wing might have all sorts of spares and aircraft setting about the place.

The BO is an amazing machine....way over engineered especially when compared to a Bell 206L-anything model.

Much prefer the Hi-skids to the standard skids...saves the belly from sticks, stumps, and rocks. Also gets the T/R that much higher which is nice.

The LS would be my pick....much more ummph when you need it.

Thanks chaps...

Do the Nigerian Police operate the LS? And if so is there anyone on here that can point me in the direction of their contact details??

BR

Ian

The BO-105LS has the same cabin as the CBS. They were only manufactured with the CBS cabin.

Brett. The LS is a fantastic machine for lifting and fire bombing. It will lift the same as a BK117. I have used them for EMS as well and it worked fine but try and limit your crew on board to 3. You start putting 4 crew on board and you soon run out of space. The rear facing co-pilot seat allows the doctor/paramedic good access to the head of the patient.

There was a BO105LS for sale at Bankstown not so long ago.

Hey guys,

Are these things really as cheap to run as it appears? I guess it makes sense that having fewer life-limited parts makes for cheaper maintenance - but are we really talking 206 prices?
How would a 105 compare to a 500D on running cost/performance?
Oh yeah - and are they really as fun to fly as they look/sound?

Thanks

Considering that the BO105 is a twin, there is no way that they are the same price to operate as a single. A few years back, the direct operating costs were in the ball park of US$800 per hour. The high cost was due to the age of the aircraft. Maybe some actual operators can jump in and prove me wrong.

I have done a number of endorsements in the BO105 and I always end up getting ill due to the fact that the students all say the same thing -

"Lets see if this thing is as manoeuverable as everyone says it is..." :yuk:

After umpteen dozen steep turns pulling 2-3 g I promptly take over the controls and say:

"Lets try some hovering practice". A engine failure soon after quickly brings them back to the fact they are there to learn about the aircraft! :E

Thanks, I've been getting widely differing answers to this one..

back to the game
 

After not having flown a BO 105 for more than one year I just renewed my type rating and was lucky enough to get to fly one for a couple of hours...
Power... more power... hughhugh:}

BO-105 Transmission Oil Pump Light Procedure
 

Question for the BO-105 experts.

What is the published procedure for one of the Xmission oil pump lights?
Is an engine shut down called for due to lack of lubrication to the respective freewheeling unit / input bearing or some other components?

Any practical thoughts on this in addition to the published procedure?

Thanks to all for any information.

The BO 105 has just one red light " T OIL ", which illuminates at Oiltemp > 105°C or Oilpress < 0,5 bar.
Also there is only one XMS-Oilpump, so any Engine shutdown is not useful.
There are no Oilpump Lights like in the EC 135.
An engine shutdown in the EC 135 is also not necessary, because even one of the two Oilpumps lubricates the whole Maingearbox

Thanks Skadi, that was fast. Does this apply to all BO's or are there different variations of XMS oil pumps / warning lights on different models?

Has anyone else heard conflicting views on XMS caution / warning procedures.

What is the published procedure for illumination of the " T OIL " light?

Totally different procedures regarding the BO-105CBS and the BO-105LS. It's been 7 or 8 years ago since I had to worry about it, but yes in the LS, the EP's call for engine shutdown. When I get home, I'll take a look around and see if I still have an LS manual to quote you on it.

The BO105LS has two transmission oil pumps, they both can supply oil to the major systems in the main transmission. The transmission input quills and freewheeling units for each engine are supplied by by only one of the two pumps. If a pump quits you have to shut down the respective engine. No big deal in the LS as it has plenty of OEI power.

Since I´ve never flown the 105LS :( , I could speak for the CBS only.

If T OIL illuminates, check the gauges.
If OilPress is low: Land immediately! Descent with minimum Power
If Temp above 105°, (10 min transient between 105° and 120°! ), reduce power, gain Airspeed with low Power and land ASAP

Thanks to all for your responses
 

Appreciate the information, exactly what we needed.

BO105 CBS Info, good bad and ugly please.
 

HI,

Looking for any info on BO105 CBS model mid 80's - how is she to fly, operating costs(how much per Hr $ for comps bank etc) , fuel burn, basically wotz it like Guys and Gals in the know?


Thanks all :cool:

BO105
 

Flew the predecessor to the CBS for a few years in the '70s. Rigid rotor. In turbulence the thing will do anything but let you loose - you can get sick in the thing (NOT joking). Long blade moment arm, powerful roll/pitch rates. A-pillar WILL whack you in the head if turbulence is moderate or more (lot like the early Lear Jets) - definitely a helmet machine if possible. Fuel burn @65 US gph @115IAS. Tough and simple machine but definitely has its downsides in turbulence!! Your passengers will NOT appreciate your choosing the thing, and it won't take long for that opinion to form - same thing for the BK117, especially if the thing has no stabilization.

For the pilot a lot of fun, sporty, fits in narrow landing spots, no electronic gimmiks, reliable...
I never got sick, even in stormy and turbulent weather...
Its not really a machine for the "average" passenger, may be, if they like a little bit of adventure....

skadi

Some people like to be driven in a RollsRoyce or similar car, others are happy as cojo in a real tough sportscar..........

yeah, the bear claws, stops you sinking in soft ground, snow and such

skadi

Yours:

"Some people like to be driven in a RollsRoyce or similar car, others are happy as cojo in a real tough sportscar.........."

" "real tough sportscar........." "

Mine: Hits the nail on the head! I'll take our 2.8 Z3 anytime, but not a BO105!


bolkow

Bear claws stop most helicopters from sinking the rear of the skids in snow - not something intrinsic to BO105, for sure.


WIII

I think the DOC rate of £1000 per hour is way out also. I know the local air ambulance costs per £1000 per hour to operate but thats the end cost to the charity and the various public donators, the cost to Bond themselves has to be less than that.
Incidentally to the person who was looking for offshore kit for a bo105, why not contact either Bond or Irish helicopters who operate two bo105's in the offshopre lighthouse support role and have done since 1969, they will surely know where to direct you to.