Insurance: Life, Loss of Licence, Sickness etc (NOT hull insurance)
 

Been flying for a few years now but am considering "Loss of License Insurance".
Anyone have any advice on the good bad or indifferent they have run across in this field? Hard to find in NZ and doesnt seem widely available elsewhere.
Info appreciated.

Lama: depends on your responsibilities I suppose, oh, and age, and depth of pockets!, and risk taking....

I have had ocassion to claim recently, because of a bad smash I was involved in. Personally, wouldn't be without it. Having said that, the premium is outrageous! But peace of mind.

The clause I claimed under was for 'disability' while recovering. I was off flying for the best part of a year. When one drops to sick pay, the extra insurance provides you with one less worry during the recovery process.

Very common over here (UK) but only with large organisations, I suspect. Stick with reputable companies, that way they won't change the goal posts when they smell a claim coming, but instead honour their commitments.



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Thermal runaway.

Loss of Licence Insurance
 

Can any-one recommend any insurance companies in Australia that offer loss of licence insurance for Aussie pilots?. . Also how many companies or employers actually provide loss of licence and life insurance as stipulated as per the Australian federal helicopter pilots award?

I've just joined the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, which acts as a type of union and also for addition quids offers loss of licence insurance.

They have a web site, <a href="http://www.afap.org.au." target="_blank">www.afap.org.au.</a>

Hope this helps.

AFAP: read the fine print. When I was laid up some years ago, they refused to pay out on my LOL, because I was getting worker's comp. Turns out that there is a clause that exempts them from paying if you have other insurance, which they classed worker's comp. as being <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

AAUP used to offer a reasonable alternative, it would be worth shopping around. Needless to say, I quit the AFAP scheme in disgust.

Try Kenney Aikin in Qld, 07 54434944 estimated quote for H1000+, charter work ie no mustering y around $2300/year with $150K cover. :)

John, wouldn't that workers comp thing affect all policies? Isn't there some law against "double insurance" or am I way off track (and too drunk to notice)?

I've got LOL Insurance with a broker in NZ which is underwriten by an English company. $500 p/y for 200K. I don't know how this compares with others as I found it quite difficult to find LOLI in NZ. The broker does all sorts a avaition type insurance here in NZ and Oversea's. Quite a good guy as well. I can give you name a number if ya like?

I am completely out of my element on this one but you might want to look into the writing of a LOLI policy in NZ for a pilot based in OZ. I live in Canada and when I took a consulting contract in Maryland I had to take out a similar type policy on my consulting business. When I left Maryland and returned to Canada I tried to continue the policy in the event that I took another contract in the US. Although the insurance company was in all 50 states they told me that the policy would only be good in Maryland as the writer of the policy was licensed to write policies only in that state and if I went into another state that required that type of insurance I would have to write another policy having it written by a broker licensed in that state.

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]</p>

Thw Westpac Helicopter Service I work for in Lismore pays the LOL insurance premium for the pilots of up to $700 per year(as per our EBA). Unfortunately with the SEP 11 tragedy, our premiums have jumped up another $290 which the pilots are responsible for paying. All that aside we are insured for LOL up to$300K.. .AON Aviation is the broker I believe: (02) 9253 7000. GPO Box 4189, Sydney. 2001.. .The insurer is Dexta Corp LTD.. .The class of insurance in Aviation COMBI(whatever that is).

Life Insurance for pilots
 

If someone could tell me where I can get life insurance which would cover me for flying helicopters i'd be grateful. Also, is it possible to get an insurance policy covering me for instructing etc?

many thanks,

mutt:

A good place to start would be Sovereign (they advertise in most of the UK pilot mags).

Nigel Howard will sort you out.

G :cool:

tks grainger, i'll try them.

Yep agree.

They did mine for general and mortgage. Quick and easy.

I have had no problems with any major company insuring me..currently with Norwich Union/Barclays for normal life insurance. All that I made sure that I did was to inform them that I was a pilot and gave them an approximate number of hours flying per year. They did not load me on decleration which I expected :)

In the States, the group policies negociated by organizations such as the Reserve Officers Association have excellent rates, and have no flying clauses in their policies. I started two such policies while an active test pilot (!) with no rejection. They are "term" policies, which simply pay for death, with no cash value (the only kind of insurance to buy, I think). Almost every professional society has such plans, with similar rates.

I don't know how UK insurance business is run, perhaps this is not a possibility.

I have had insurance with both Standard Life and Eagle Star with no loading whatsoever. You need to shop around as all companies change their policy depending on how much business they have already captured within each sector.

Good Luck!

insurance
 

Have you thought of just handing the task to a broker?

I palmed the job off to a friendly broker and he found me a policy with some company (forget which) because my Royal Sun Alliance policy had an aviation (except commercial airlines) exclusion. Then two years later the R &SA dropped the exclusion provided I just documented my experience and my likely hours flying. I then dropped the original one and now just have the one policy. Wasn't that much of a problem.

Obviously, you need to talk to an IFA (Independent Financial Adviser). An IFA is legally obliged to work on the clients behalf and not any individual insurance company. He can get details of the whole range of policies, etc, on offer and select the right product for your needs. And it just so happens I'm an IFA. (Shamless bit of self promotion, this!) as well as being an ex commercial and military pilot.

If you want to talk about it just give me a ring on 01242 239784.
Ask for 'Mark'.

Helimut

Word of caution, before you part with your drinking vouchers, read the small print.

Some of the catch all's:

1. You are insured only for the description shown under "occupation" If you put: 'pilot' then it will only pay out if you cannot fly-full stop. If there is a chance you could still 'medically' fly in the company of another pilot, then they will not pay out! Make the job description specific (like: single pilot ops etc).
2. Check the deferred pay out period, for a few pounds more you can reduce this period quite significantly. (normally they won't pay out for a year+):eek:
3. Did you know that 85% of applications to the CAA for "loss of licence" are amended to read: 'suspended'.
This means the insurance won't pay out:mad:
You would need to suffer from a terminal illness/Diabetes/partial blindness etc for a payout.

I don't mean to put you off, but experience with the industry on a number of cases has uncovered a plethora of inconsistencies and lots of 'insurance parlance'. Read it thoroughly and then read it again! Tailor it to your needs and come to an arrangement with the underwriters thru your intermediary. A good one is worth its weight in gold.
You may want to consider: employment protection, or a pick and mix :)

Agree that Sovereign seem to be most competitive and easy to work with. Got 120 grand worth of joint cover for a tenner a month through Legal & General via Sovereign. No premium loading due to flying hours.

Kev Bac:
don't take this the wrong way, but your premium doesn't make sense at all!!!
I have cover for £200,000 and the premium on this is 1%:confused: £2000/year. Your £120/year seems suspect to say the least (pro rata).

I'd love to read the small print:)

Thomas,

we are talking a simple 'If you die, this is what you get' life insurance policy, with none of the considerations you have discussed.

By his original post, this seems to be what Helimutt was after and this is what Sovereign offers.

disability insurance/income replacement
 

Hello all,

Now that I kinda make an income and am off the diet of ramen noodles,tuna fish and minute rice I have been thinking about insurance plans. (though i still enjoy a hot cup of 19cent noodles)

I have been looking into getting a long term disability plan in case I blow a disk or come down with some wierd diease 20 yrs from now and cant fly. Some sort of income replacement plan.

Do any of you guys have such a beast?

Who Are the better vendors?

What do not want to tell them, what do you want to tell them?

Anything I should be leary of?

Are eyes/vision typically insured in these plan..

Any advice, input and warning welcome.

Thanks

RB:p

PHPA is currently working on LTD/LOL insurance for members. You might check there. For one or only a few pilots, it's very, very expensive, even to get 50% income coverage.

Insurance is a messy business, I would suggest - anywhere.
I would even go as far as to say: crooks, some of them!
Personal experience has taught me the following:
Pay enough money and you will get cover.
Read the small print and if you can't understand it get another crook (lawyer) to explain it - FL excluded of course:)
Loss of licence is cheaper/easier to get.
Income protection is very expensive and is a legal minefield. It 'normally' only covers you if you become a vegetable:eek:
[Unable to feed/dress oneself]. Very very rarely do you get income protection for your particular profession (aviation). It's too risky for the insurance company.
Finally -if you get the insurance you want -comply with every single aspect of its requirements, or they will nullify it at the drop of a hat (this means telling them you had measles at 4 and haemarroids at 44!].
Good luck!

Loss of Licence Insurance
 

Can anyone recommend a company that they use for this?

Thanks in advance

5150

The biggest problem with Loss Of Licence is that the CAA never actually take away ones licence anymore - even for the most serious of illnesses or conditions. This is supposed to help you eventually regain your flying status.

When you get an illness or condition that stops you flying for longer than 30 days, you will be issued with a provisional suspension of flying status letter by the CAA.

Except for very clear cut cases, loss of limbs, loss of sight etc, you can remain provisionally suspended for years.

If consultants and the CAA finally decide that there is no current medical procedure available to regain your flying status then they will issue another letter placing you on Long Term Sick. Few consultants ever like to admit to there being nothing further that they can do - especially if you are under lucrative private care.

Loss of Licence insurers will not even talk to you until you get to the long term stage. Even at this stage you will still have to prove to the insurer that you will never be returned to flying status. Whether they pay or not is still discretionary!!!

Loss of licence is an important insurance, especially if you do not yet have a job, but it will not give you the protection that you will need if you lose your income.

How do I know this? Well I have been through it. I am thankfully now back flying after 2 and a half years off due to an apparently straightforward illness. I am now somewhat enlightened about how difficult a time it is being grounded and how important the right insurance is.

My personal recommendation is that you make sure you have an own occupation, Permanent Health Insurance (PHI) policy that will start to pay out when your employer stops your salary.

I, fortunately, had such a policy and I claimed under it during my time off. The claim process was simple and clear. It gave me a reasonable tax free salary whilst my employer was not paying me.

I will gladly pass to you details of the policy that I have and give you further details. Either email me or leave a private message.

Try traffords , they will quote you for virtually every type of aviation insurance going.

They're very thorough, and will not try an sell you something you don't need, but be warned - the policies are very expensive, and may not always be worth the premiums.

It entirely depends on your circumstances.

Insurance against loss of medical
 

Hi guys and girls I am a student pilot currently doing my CPL in the UK.

Even if I don't have a flying job yet(and I know it will take a while to get one) I was thinking to buy an insurance against loss of class one medical ,at the end of the day I am investing tens of thousands of pounds and the fact that I will have a return in life depends also on my class one medical,if I lose it at any stage from now I will be left with no money and without the hope to get the so much wanted flying job!

Is it possible to get an insurance at this stage of training agaist loss of medical one?

If you have experience with any insurance companyes about this matter could you please give me advise?

Regards,

M.A.

Try BALPA or IPA both provide/or can put you in touch with companies that can arrange medical cover. When I was a student pilot the Insurers had a cap of £30,000 unless you where in airpine. Don't know if that is still true or if it was just that company.

Thank you African Drunk,I'll try to contact them.

M.A.

Loss of medical insurance
 

Does anyone have avenues, which they recommend I pursue in regards to loss of medical insurance information?

Who is good and who is not?

I have contacted so far, the Australian federation of Air Pilots and their associated fund, but basically I am after all my options.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

I have done some hunting around on this one before an I think you will find that untill you are with one of the majors (i.e. Virgin or Qantas or affiliates) all of your options are the AFAP. I spoke to several insurance brokers over this who were willing to put their thumb in my pie if they could. There was some talk that some small underwriting mobs from the states may have been interested. Seeing that I am an Oz GA pilot I told them what they could do with their thumb.

Heard good stories about the AFAP setup, albeit not real cheap, and you need to be a member.

Anyone else?

Willie

medical insurance
 

Had a mate who had some serious medical problems as result lost his long time flying job. Had insurance with Aon insurance via Pacific underwriting. They were very unhelpful and did all they could to stall and get out of any benefits being payed out. Said manager Ian in Sydney was a real pig. Needless to say he wouldn't recommend this company. Shop around and read the fine print...

Try Lumley life, they have a good Income protection policy that covers pilots. Whilst this is not "Loss of Licence" it is the closests thing you can get with a good benefit nowdays.

They offer up to 75% of your salary to age 65, if you can not work in your nominated ocupation. So this covers for loss of licence or just Ill health.

personal accident insurance...?
 

Hi Folks,

Could anyone in Australia suggest an insurance company that would cover an freelance helicopterpilot for personal accident insurance. Presently in Victoria.

Thanking you in advance,

Nomads:ok:

You could start with your bank. You will probably be able to get it just remember to fully disclose what you do for a living. Most life and disability policies have a clause thats says you are not covered whilst involved in motorsport, mountain climbing or acting as P.I.C. of an aircraft other than rpt.

My bank gave me an extra form to fill out asking hours flown each year, type of work etc. They still offered me the insurance but at triple the premium. Guess they spoke to my boss !!

Hi again,

Surely there must be a few more freelance pilots in Australia that have personal accident insurance.

It seems dificult to get any income cover as a helicopter pilot. I am looking to something equivalent to work-cover when you are employed for a company.

Any suggestions???

Thanks again.

Nomad













:ok: :ok: :ok: :uhoh: :ok:

Try Comminsure, part of the commonwealth bank.
They will cover you for trauma/life insurance dont know about loss of licence though.

Also try Patricia Kenney I cant remember what company she works for but it is an aviation underwriter they were offering loss of licence but this is getting harder to come by as the years go on and gets quite expensive once over 40.