I sure hope so cos im gonna need a job at the end of next year :ok:

I am recruiting now...and have been with not much success. We have unusually high requirements for our pilots due to the work we do and these kinds of pilots do not grow on trees. We have plenty of Resumes appear on the desk...but when we begin to sort out the ones that have our basic qualifications...and have no felony warrants outstanding...and do not attend AA or some other rehab clinic....and have an identifiable work ethic...well...the pickings are slim.

We might even have to resort to hiring Kiwi's....

Maybe working for SASless is considered a fate worse than death.........

Just before Air Europe obligingly went down and supplied some drivers, there were fixed wing companies going bust because there were no pilots - and even if all you had was a letter confirming a course, you had a job (you couldn't get on courses for four years) - new pilots at Monarch were idle because all the training captains were out of hours.

The underlying shortage then has never really gone away, because there was a depression shortly afterwards and nobody was training, and I believe it will come back to bite with a vengeance, due to all those accountants who cut staff without realising that you have to replace people now and then.

It is now coming in the helicopter industry, with a shortageof good corporate guys in Europe, and slingers in Canada/USA

Phil

....SASless:

Jeez..things must be bad!!:ok: :E

Come on guys. Your still not sore about the the Bledisloe Cup or the Super 12?

:cool: :D :D :ok:

SASless:

Give me a call ..... maybe I can help with pilots. (well, one anyway)

[email protected]

helicopter pilots pay
 

I was shocked the other day after looking in the paper at the salarys of unskilled and skilled labour. A driving instructors wage seems higher than a helicopter flying instructor.

Isnt it time we all put up our prices. The CAA do..The super rich people that we fly around all seem to be earning more money year on year. Yet the hourly rate paid to a flight instructor has not changed in the last 10 years..

I think Helicopter companys instead of working together are all locked in too heavy competition like Easy Jet and Ryan air . trying to offer more for less.

Are you comparing like with like?
Total earnings or hourly rates?

If a recent thread was reasonably accurate, student-pilots seem to pay about £40 per hour for basic instruction in the UK - even for a low hours newly qualified instructor.
Do people pay more than £40 per hour in the UK just for the driving instructor?

If they do, could that be because demand for driving instructors exceeds supply? I don't know if it does, just wondering.
Is it possible the supply of flying instructors exceeds the demand? If there are too many instructors chasing too few students, earnings will stay low.

In something as specialist as helicopter instruction, should there be a significant difference between the hourly rates of high and low hours instructors to reflect their experience - and give students the choice?

UK FI rates for basic training are already amongst the highest in the world - and much more than in the US which tempts many UK student-customers.
Is charging even more a good idea?


Just a few thoughts.

Heliport,

I think a comparison like that is likely to be a bit misleading. The hourly rate for FIs is what they get paid for every hour of flying that the school get paid for. The hourly rate that an FI actually gets PAID (over all the hours that he/she works) will be MUCH less than this.

It is a while since I did basic instruction but, I would have thought the ratio of flying hours to working hours could be as high as 1:5 certainly 1:3 - £10-12 per hour is not a high rate, especially since the FI carries much of the risk (e.g. not paid when weather causes cancellation - all those winter days spent waiting around for the weather to improve).

Mind you, it is more than a fixed wing instructor gets paid!

Another way of looking at this is what sort of profit flying schools make out of their business. Unless things have changed a lot, I think the answer is not much. Now the schools could put their rates up, but there are 2 undesirable consequences of that:

- the so-called rich customers could go and do another less expensive sport/hobby or save their money or buy a newer car;
- do remember that all of us (except those trained by the taxpayer) had to pay to be trained in order to be an FI

Helicam suggested "Isnt it time we all put up our prices."

It doesn't seem as if increasing the hourly cost to students by between x3 and x5 (your ratios) is a good idea.

:confused:

You mean you get paid for doing this? So that's what I've been doing wrong.....

Phil

pay
 

A few of things to mull over;

To pay for your instructors qualification in the UK will set you back about £50-60K with all the hours building, CPL exams, Instructors course etc.

To keep your licence ratings current on say 3 aircraft types will cost you around £1000-1500 a year.(that works out in earnings equivalent of about 40-50 trial lessons). One hour flying plus the brief and de-brief equals 2Hours of your time = £20/hr not £40
You have to do a minimum number of instructional hours each year to stay current or you will have to pay more to renew your rating.

All that money just to be able earn a living!!!!
Tell me one other profession that will cost you so much just to be in a position to do the job.

Most people/students are suprised when they learn how little we get out of the dual rate they pay to the flying schools.

I know that we as English helicopter pilots earn more than most instructors around the world, but the cost of living in the U.K is also higher

But I feel that an increase to the hourly rate must be inevitable, it has been the same for 10 years. My friends who have proper jobs expect a pay rise every year from their companys

There is as mentioned by Heliport little profit in instructing so the increase must come from the customer.

I love my job but I would also like to have the oppurtunity to own my own property, this simply wont be the case until I can secure a job in a role enviroment that pays more such as the police, who are requiring an I.R . Where the money for that will come from who knows.

Here we go again.......market forces.......many, many "professions" are affected by this. And since the demise of union protection for most, there's only one way for fees to go in a market which has an oversupply of skilled people. The wages for heli instructors and other freelances will remain in vortex ring until someone either creates a shortage - or says no to the money.

'Tis the way it's always been in the "free" world.

Get a union together - a rotary-only union. Get recognition. Get represented. (Oh God - I feel a Michael Foot duffle coat memory coming on.)

Michael Foot was before my time... sort of!

OK, so this may have been done to death on another thread but would a union help?

Perhaps a poll would be beneficial - would you join a union if you thought the chances were good that your salary would increase?

I did and it increased more than 40%.
Chopperman.

So, what's the hesitation?

Of course, employers probably wouldn't want the industry 'unionised'. Is the hesitation just from the shivers that run up people's spines when they think of the 'Foot' era?

Things may be changing for the better including pay. Rotor & Wing (April 2004) think that the retiring pilots will soon create a shortage of helicopter pilots. If so, then wages are bound to rise. There are certainly more jobs in the USA than there was a year ago with less hours required. Having said that I'm afraid that 150 hours on a Robbo will get you nowhere.

Regards,

Chopperpilot 47

Honest question.. As an ex mil A2 QHI with some 5000 hrs with 4000 of those instructional - I have no inclination whatsoever to use the instructor priveledges of my rating. Don't get me wrong, I loved instructing and quite fancy setting myself up as a driving instructor... But where could I possibly earn the sort of money as a civilian helicopter instructor that I can get as a purely commercial pilot? (and what about that endless JAA, EASA form filling cr*p)

As billywizz said' "why bother?"

I wonder how much experience and talent is really out there and untapped....