freeride

Nope I didn't apply - why should I be careful how I answer:confused: . The advert said they were head-hunting so I just waited for the call;) Afterall I am suitably qualified:- 332 on license, 3 tours of doing SAR including Lossiemouth, know what it is like living offshore but heh ho no call - perhaps I am too old :* Even if they had called I wouldn't have accepted the present terms as they would have meant I would have lost on pay, leave and pension - a no brainer really:p

HF

Fair call HF - it was just a bit of fishing, no underlying motives apart from the RAF bit:p

Allowance for Offshore Jigsaw
 

A little bird tells me that the Bristow pilots who did the trials for Jigsaw were promised that BP would make sure they received £120 per night, more if they had to share cabins! Perhaps some 'creative' accounting going on?:confused:

bondu

Perhaps BP read this forum......:eek:

£50 a day offshore? How does it feel to have the lowest per dieum in the North Sea? I was getting twice that and more 10 years ago.

Jigsaw pilot selection process
 

I heard that the Bond HR department used the Pprune website to help identify and weed out all whinging pilots in the industry during their selection process. They were obviously spot on with that technique !

:rolleyes: :ok:

Hmmm, no my name is not Tristan although that is a pretty name!:p

Lets see, some interesting comments coming out here.....

£100 a day offshore allowance instead of £50? (Dont BP personnel get £100?)
6 weeks leave a year instead of 2, perhaps a dedicated SAR 2 on 2 off 2 on 3 off cycle?
flying into and crew changing out of Aberdeen instead of missing your expensive holiday?

Some fantastic ideas to attract the right calibre of pilot in the current market. How about a SAR allowance - sort of danger pay to acknowledge the differnt role and skills in the dangerous environment. Why not throw in a flight allowance to sweeten the deal to an airport of your choice.

Well that would certainly attract me im not sure about you guys. That should guarantee the retention of pilots and have more waiting to sign up to the expansion of the project after the initial phase?

Oh well all pie in the sky i suppose.........or is it?

Big P

Bond uses a selection technique based on compliance. This means that a pilot complies with what he is told to do and doesn't ask questions. If you are a Bond pilot you know better than most how it works - overtime payment what's that???

Jigsaw

"Why not throw in a flight allowance to sweeten the deal to an airport of your choice" That must be Aberdeen then cos thats where you make em all Live ;)

"Oh well all pie in the sky i suppose.........or is it?" Yep it sure is :)

I hear that Jigsaw has now deployed offshore. How is it going - enjoying the snow.:eek:

Its going just fine thanks for asking JIGSPY. The aircraft are in theatre and have added to the safey of the North Sea Oil industry as recently demonstrated by assisting SHELL to evacuate it's "TERN A" platform when it suffered a fire. The Miller aircraft provided cover to the crew change flights in the recent 60 knot storms that saw many standby vessels unable to do so. This coupled with a generous pay award which has brought the package into line with what many people on this forum would want to do the job means that the project will go from strength to strength as it attracts more oil companies into the project.

Keep an eye on Flight international boys!

Jigsaw,
Firstly, any info on the Miller aircraft being grounded due weather earlier this month? Also, the unservicability (a hydraulics problem?) which caused it to return to Aberdeen.
Secondly, you say it provided cover during the 60kt storms, excellent, however, if you started a Puma in 60kts on an offshore deck your a braver person than me. Did you shut it down in 60kts, or take it to the beach?
Finally, are you Lord Melchet using a pseudonym? Cause you certainly sound like him.:E
Chopperman.

Jigsaw,

Interesting the stuff....

The decks on the North Sea close at 60kts so how much cover were you providing???

The L2 is certified to start in winds up to 55kts so you are potentially operating outside the aircraft limits. Also that limit is 30 deg either side of the nose. What happens when the wind changes direction whilst you are on deck? Any change in direction of more than 30 deg makes the starting limit 30kts. So how do you turn the aircraft on the helideck in those situations and how long does it take?

I heard about the recent mutiny at Bond which caused the pay 'awards', well done guys!! About time you got paid what you were worth.:)

Still two weeks on the Miller, 14 hour days, getting up to untie and move the aircraft for crew change flights (in your 60kt winds), living in small cramped accomodation and having to attend safety drills and the like in your 10 hour rest period makes it all worthwhile.

Enjoy,
RTS

So the rumours that a number of people have handed in their notices are true?

Jigsaw,
Or are you 'Smithers'?:eek:
Chopperman

Jigsaw

Spin spin and more spin. I suppose you will confirm that the Miller a/c had to go ashore at least twice in the past 2 weeks because of the not very high winds. Both a/c ending up in Sumburgh which messed up our crew change a little!!!

Jigspy

A little bird tells me that a black and yellow chopper spent 2 hrs going up and down the north sea looking for a rig to take him during those high winds:)

and as for :-

"The aircraft are in theatre and have added to the safey of the North Sea Oil industry as recently demonstrated by assisting SHELL to evacuate it's "TERN A" platform when it suffered a fire"

Notice you never mentioned the RAF or the Coastguard Helo's who also took part in the incident it must have slipped your mind:hmm:

I think you will find that the Tern down manning went very smoothly and the Jigsaw aircraft integrated with the other assets just like any other SAR helo. I'm sure if I was sitting on a rig that could potentially catch fire, I would be grateful for all the helos I could find. Please also bear in mind that this was a Shell rig and BP were happy to use their helo to help - a very good sign I would say about potential future integration.

Why are you all so negative about the whole project? If there is any potential that this project can expand this can olny be a good thing for the industry. You may not want the job, but there are plenty that do, particularly now the pay is approaching an almost acceptable level for the job.

As for aircraft limits, if you knew anything, you would know that the aircraft actually deployed to Aberdeen where it maintained standby in winds of less than 55 kts for the few crew change flights that were able to continue. I don't have a part in either company before you ask so this is not spin, just honest opinion with the correct facts! :ok:

Firstly, I'm not having a go at Freeride, I'd just like to pose a question to those in the know. (If Jigsaws' around, please don't give me the standard Bond :yuk: rhetoric).
Quite right, I couldn't agree more, anything that brings jobs to the industry is good news, my concern is that the project is not totally viable. So...
Very sensible. As we all know, (well, all us Puma drivers at least), Pumas don't fare well offshore in high winds when they are shutdown. However, can someone tell me what standby cover the Miller has when the aircraft is deployed to Aberdeen? Does one of the Brae standby vessels cover for it by any chance?:rolleyes:
Chopperman.

Well said Freeride, couldn't agree more!

chopperman:
Maybe you don't know enough to make that judgement? Maybe you should let other people worry over viability? Someone who is actually involved in the project and knows the facts e.g BP, Bond, CAA, HSE, UKOOA and the workers Unions? Just a thought ....
By the way I was under the impression the project was called Jigsaw for a reason, maybe you should ask someone to explain the concept .... ?

:)

Woolf

Woolf,
:eek: Don't get all wound up and defensive about Jigsaw, I'm not trying to decry it at all.
Well...I didn't say the project wasn't viable, I said...
because,
Now I freely admit to not knowing all the facts, which is why I asked...
because by asking such questions and, hopefully, getting some sensible answers, I, and perhaps others, will be able to form our own opinions as to the viability of the project.
Geddit?:E
Chopperman.:ok:

I think that all professional helicopter pilots working in the N Sea welcome the addition of an offshore-based SAR helicopter. The sea states that we sometimes operate in would make rescue by a surface vessel very difficult even if they could find you.

A SAR helicopter has so many advantages over the present standby vessels that I do hope that it is expanded but somehow I doubt it will be as bp is loosing interest in the N Sea as reserves dwindle and the return on capital follows suite.

JIGSAW does have problems though; some are due to the settling in period and the lack of experience amongst the crews in operating an offshore-based a/c. These will disappear as experienced is gained. Others, however, are due to the unsuitability of the 332 as an offshore-based a/c. It is too top heavy and too susceptible to blade sail on start/shutdown. The last time Bond based a 332 offshore they had at least two offshore head changes due to blades assuming the vertical!!

The recent episode of it going ashore for wind (it didn't reach 55kts offshore) will diminish as experience is gained as well as it being sent out to float around looking for a deck to shut down on before the crew ran out of hours. It ended up in Sumburgh.

What I find amusing is Jigsaw's spin on it all.

"The Miller aircraft provided cover to the crew change flights in the recent 60 knot storms that saw many standby vessels unable to do so."

The Miller a/c was forced ashore so it provided cover as the SAR at Lossiemouth does:confused: There were no 60kt winds our wind readout did not even gust to 60kts - in fact, it did not even gust to 55kts so we stayed offshore.

JIGSAW is a good idea it doesn't need the spin so Jigsaw needs to rein in his spin or it will become a laughing stock or even worse a believer in its own spin which is not a good thing to happen in SAR

HF

HUMMINGFROG, you're probably right about the spin but i just can help mixing it up a little on the rumour network to see what the industry thinks. I must admit that it is good to see some excellent debate on JIGSAW although it is well mixed amongst a large amount of poorly informed comment - but it is a rumour network after all!

Thanks to everyone for all the advice about aircraft and helideck limits although my years of military SAR flying did prepare me for analysing the forecast and basing my decisions to comply with said limits. Unfortunatly the wind was actually a steady 58 knots which made helidecks open but unavailable for shutdown, hence the relocation and subsequent north sea platform tour.

Although its actually rather nice out here, i'm looking forward to my 3 weeks off skiing in Canada, then perhaps Hawaii again next - who knows with the money and time off im getting i could do pretty much anything!

Hello JIGSAW
 

Evening JIGSAW

You sure have a pretty name!!

chopperman:
No not really :}
No one is getting wound up and defensive! I am all for asking questions and having a good debate. Jigsaw has been controversial from the start and it is only natural that issues are raised in this forum. However there seems to be a general "guilty until proven innocent" attitude. If you are interested then why not ask a question to "Those in the know" instead of asking a question and already offering your take on it?

Sensible answers on a postcard! :ok:

HF

With your insider knowledge of BP's future plans for North Sea production and exploration, I'm suprised you have to lower yourself to flying helicopters ;)

I think you should let BP know before they build their new offices in Dyce - whoops they've already started. Perhaps it's all a tax dodge so Gordon doesn't get another 10%!

My CG sources tell me that they are out on a search at the moment for a missing trawlerman - the second time in as many days that BP have allowed their asset to be used for the good of all on, in and over the North Sea.

Good luck to the Jigsaw boys! :ok:

Freeride

Having lived and worked on a bp platform for many years you would be surprised what inside knowledge I have picked up ;) - I sat through all the bp presentations to the offshore work force and what you have now is a very scaled back effort compared to what it was going to be.

HF

So, How's it going now?
 

It's been a few months since the last post on this thread, the MoD have announced the demise of MilSAR and Jigsaw has had some time to settle in.

So, how's it going?

Has the a/c had the predicted problems operating offshore? Has the perceived lack of experience become a problem? Or have most of the issues been addressed?

Not contentious, just interested!! ;)

Project Jigsaw
 

Any news on the status?.Understand that the boats have been delayed again.

How are the guys on the yellow and green birds holding up?

I'm not quite sure where you got that from. Don't disregard MilSAR completely. It may occur in a different form to that available at the moment, but it will exist.

A quick search on the old google turned up this:

"Helicopters Replace Boats at Rigs
The plan, called Project Jigsaw, would station four helicopters on separate platforms in the northern, central and southern sectors of the North Sea. Two more helicopters would be land based—one in Aberdeen and the other in East Anglia."

http://www.aviationtoday.com/cgi/rw/...rotorcraft.htm

dunno if this is what crud12001 was refering to, but i tried :)

Wooly

The whole project is a ridiculous cost saving exercise at the risk of lives, trying to take away standby/support ships and replace them with helicopters, my personal opinion is that we need both, not one or the other. The oil companies aren't particularly short of money, so they should be forced increase expenditure on safety around the rigs.

"Already SAR agency sources are beginning to question whether the Super Puma can handle the mission, given its known operational constraints on helidecks in severe weather."

L'aviateur - it is a BP project not an "oil companies" project.

From the Light Blue Horses Mouth, so to speak!!

You are quite right, SB, it will be a different form, and with a drastically smaller foot print than it has at present. So it may be there, but not a lot of it.

MilSAR will probably be only a couple of flights and used as a rest tour from SH. Most of the chat at the mo from experienced MilSAR crews are not about "If" but "When", and that also appplies to their discusssions on when to submit their CV's to prospective employers!!! ;)

Still, we digress, and back to my previous post. How's it going?

Heard on the grapevine that a couple of pretty experienced RAFSAR pilots have just been recruited, and that the rearcrew are being medically trained by the RAF. Any flesh to add to the bones?

So Ture
 

How right you are! It is such a cost saving exercise that the two SAR helicopters are being made mix it with commercial shuttle operations, sometimes the two disciplines clash. I have seen the JIGSAW aircraft on the Unity/Bravo a few times now. Who provides the SAR cover when the aircraft is down southern area.:ugh:
They don't seem to be having a problem with the aircraft in bad weather, it's surprising everyone.:ok:

BP Project Jigsaw
 

All seems to have gone silent!.

anybody any news on whats happening?are all the ac on station and all the big boats working?.

Crud12001

Not sure about the boats but I did hear Rescue Bond 1 return to Aberdeen today dropping off a casualty at the Airport. Looks like they have been operating for a while now.

Bond One/Two have been working for ages now...jolly good job they do too!! I note that CHC now have an AS365 here in Aberdeen again after the long farewell to the dauphin for the transit routes in the central north sea after the Bond a/c did the routes for a while.

atco

I think the quote "after the Bond a/c did the routes for a while" is not quite accurate. The reason the 365N is back in town is that the Jigsaw aircraft was so unreliable in supporting bp that they wanted the 365N back ASAP but no a/c was available until now and a Norwegian registered/CHC crewed 365N2 is being used as back up.

I also hear that the Jigsaw a/c spends a fair amount of time in Aberdeen due to weather etc.

332M

Jigsaw, from my point of view
 

Sorry for the intrusion, not being a pilot, but I thought that some input from me was needed to relieve the pessamists of the Jigsaw Project from any doubt as to the integrity and stability of the project itself.

I work on one of the RSV's, as an ARRC crewmember. I have done operations with the helicopter a few times now, all of them have run like clockwork. :D

Last time we did exercises with the Miller SAR aircraft was a week or so ago, the conditions were not perfect, and the wind was gusting 30+ Kts, but the pilot was incredibly able and skilled as was the winch operator, an the actual winch man. We safely landed the Winchman (Alan I think his name was) 3 or for times, then completed hi-line exercises and stretcher transfers with the SAR Helo, all operations went very smoothly in seas exceeding 3.5 - 4 metres.

This to me tells me that even in more extreme weather, the SAR Helo's, ARRC's and the RSV's combined can offer medical and Evacuation cover second to none, each ARRC has the capacity to evac 80+ personnel (top end) from a platform, and each ARRC is better equipt than a NHS Ambulance ashore, and we have the facilities onboard to offer a high degree of Primary, and Secondary Medical Aid.

One thing I did have concerns with at first was the Lauching Systems for the ARRC's but after a year or so of modifications, and uprades, these seem to now be Ironed out. :ok:

I hope that we can publicly generate awareness for the work that we in the marine sector, and yourselves in the Aviation sector can be proud of, and I honestly believe that this is the way forward for offshore safety regimes.

For people involved in Jigsaw, I hope that we can build on our relationships and make this a diverse, rewarding and proactive Project.

I would like to finish this article for Mr B Walker, who wrote to the Numast saying "The whole project and the concept is a joke and I quote " If I ever had the misfortune of falling in the water, leave me to make my own way home," Well Mr Walker, I'm sure you would change your mind when you are actually in the water freezing your balls off, and we come along to rescue you, you will appriciate why we are actually serving here in the North Sea, and more to the point, I am sure your family will appriciate you going home safe, Rather than in a Wooden Jacket.

Please reply with your thoughts on this. :D