Thanks a lot all, I'll experiment with neck-fitting garments. I'm going on one of these cruise / expedition ship jobs to Antarctica, as I have mentioned before on this forum. With seawater survival times of 15 minutes or so, I think one of the biggest risks is an upset Zodiac, but they don't provide immersion suits for the punters, so I'm taking my own.

QDM

Make sure to wear lots of warm clothing underneath as the suit will keep you dry but not warm.

QDM

Hope the advice has been helpful.
In return, can I ask you to post a report or two when you go.

Safe flying.


Heliport

Extremely helpful, Heliport. I'll be happy to report back. And many thanks for magically combining the two threads.

QDM

Flightsuits and Helicopters
 

I don't know if this topic has been tortured to death previously, but i just wanted to find out what the views on this forum were regarding wearing Nomex flight suit vs cotton flight suit vs white shirt and trousers (probably polyester).

I can see that just like wearing a helmet it would be a safety feature to have the Nomex Flightsuit, but i understand there are pilots that wear the cotton versions, which in my opinion takes away the safety aspect of wearing it.

I guess the simplest arguement against wearing the flight suit vs the white shirt in a VIP enviroment, would be that you would scare the daylights out of your pax. They would probably wonder if you wore a flightsuit and helmet and where was their protection? :uhoh:

I wanted to do a poll, but alas being the blondie i am i can't find the feature that allows me to do this.

Regards

MD :ok:

If you're spending 500 hours a year in the helicopter and your pax spend 1/2 hour a year, then an honest risk analysis doesn't justify the pax spending $500+ on safety gear.

For you, however, it may be worth it. Don't wear synthetics next to the skin (including Nomex), do be comfortable and functional. I always plan to wear full length cotton underneath Nomex. Sometimes it's hot. If comfort becomes a factor I may change.

As far as your passengers, don't wear a flying suit that is oil stained, sagging, torn, etc. You can look as professional in a flight suit as you can in a business suit.

If pax are still concerned with you having safety gear and them not then maybe its worth it to have some safety gear for them to use. Could even charge them for it.

Fire risk
 

Lets look at the risk analysis then.

I forget the precise figures but a five layer pro racing suit with full underwear, balaclava, gloves and helmet gives the wearer about 60 secs to scarper.

A single layer baggy gro-bag over your M&S shreds is probably worth a couple of seconds if you're lucky.

Against total heli hours flown, how many pilots have been singed where a nomex suit would have helped, not too many I'd wager.

Whiff of smoke and you hit the ground running, serious blaze is usualy post stoof where unfortunately you and the machine are usualy beyond repair.

On a lighter note I don't know of many VIP pax who'd be wildly impressed with a 'professional' flying suit. I'd have a word in your taylor's shell like if your suits are as smart as an overall.

As a private pilot in an R44, in the winter a flying suit is great

With doors that don't fit properly, then the amount of cold you get around you middle in a shirt and trousers is quite high

You look a bit of a prat, but as I do 250 hours a year, at least I'm comfortable and warm.

POOR MAN's FLIGHT SUIT
 

I usually wear a poor man's outfit, cotton jeans and cotton shirt, wool socks and my A2 leather jacket. I avoid man made fibers.

In Padfield's book, "Learning to Fly Helicopters", he addresses this issue. Eventually I plan to get a flight suit & helmut.

Question about survival suits
 

Gentalmen,

We are flying offshore at very cold area,

Any information for Passengers' survival suits that you are using?(Types, Manufactures?)

Thx

I'm very glad not to be able to help you. The water temperature in the Gulf of Mexico is still above 70F, at least further offshore, and around 60 in the shallow water close to shore. We don't use survival suits at all. :D :D :D

We use Multifab, UK company Here

As with all survival suits, if they're to work at their best they're uncomfortable, but at least we don't have to sit in them all day long, slowly pressurising them from within :O

I've got a Multifab myself but there is a variaty of suppliers.
I think this one is from Finnland klick here

:O

Hey Gomer, the water is almost 80 here in the Caribbean. Sharks love it.

If it is really cold, then the "survival suit" is only half of what you need. A good thermal underlayer is a must too.

There are sharks here, too. I've seen them longer than a 206, and I really, really don't want to go swimming out there. But it's still better than going swimming in 40 degree water, sharks or no sharks.

Flightsuits
 

Hi all,

Im trying to get hold of a pair of flight trousers that have the clear plastic knee pockets on them. Ive been all over the web and all i can find is full flight suits with these pockets.

Any of you guys know if they exist or any possible contacts i can look into.

Many thanks in advance,

R22

In Australia try Sisley Clothing Company.

www.sisleyclothing.com.au/

They are very helpful and may be able to assist, and

no I don't work for them

French connection (I'm not a labels man!) do a version of a flight suit but its just a pair of trousers. front pockets side pockets the lot. great for flying. about £60 in uk thou!!

Like 800 said

If your looking for a good product in Australia check out Sisleyclothing.

Matt Sisley's a great bloke and is more than happy to build whatever you require.

Check his website, he supplies to all major EMS in OZ.

Tropic

Try

www.silvermans.co.uk

You can get RAF issue Nomex suits for £65.

Do I have to add, "don't work there, no affiliation"

...on a similar note and not so much "off topic" can we discuss why when the subject of helmets & flight suits come up, you always get the usual respopnses of..

"...you'll scare the PAX..."

"...you'll look a tw@t..."

etc. etc.

I can maybe agree that if you wear military versions in a civilian environment, then yes you do look a bit of a "Top Gun" wannabee, but what's wrong with civilian versions.

One thing I do agree with, if not in a shirt/tie/VIP scenario, is the wearing of a helmet if it's your choice. It's nothing to do with looking :cool: it's to do with safety. Like a previous poster commented, you're in the heli for a large part of your year, your PAX might only be in it 1/2 an hour. Statistically you are more likely to benefit from it than you PAX.

Also in the unlikely event of some form of strike on the cockpit the helmet could prevent serious injury. Additionally in an accident the helmet could prevent you from being knocked unconscious and maybe enable you to fly the helicopter to a safe landing. Likewise if you did crash you may be the only conscious person on board as you had a helmet, therefore you could be the only person available to pull people from the wreckage.

I see the pilots safety as the passengers safety.

Whenever I flew in a heli as a passenger, I just took it as being part of the kit a pilot was required to wear, I also thought a smartly presented flight suit looked professional and appropriate for the role of a professional pilot.

Flying suits
 

Anybody have any good UK companies that sell quality nomex flying suits.

I see RSH have stopped selling them and other companies seem to be few and far between.

Thanks in advance!

Try Derby Unitex. They seem to supply quite a few HEMS, Police ASU and firearms units as well as general industry. Cosalt Ballyclare are the daddies of the flying suit industry but normally deal in large scale orders (MoD etc).
I don't have a number to hand but I'll dig one out when I get back to work if a google doesn't come up with the goods.
GC

Ok. I take it back. Google is the Daddy. Try these....
www.cosalt-ballyclare.com
www.derbyunitex.co.uk
Good luck,
GC

Try these:

http://www.xinteractiveclothing.com/index.htm (UK style and US style)
http://www.aureusinternational.com/ (US style)

Check for flight suits in the USA and avoid those ugly plastic thighed deals....just not chic old boy...plastic says it all.

flightsuits.com I think is the web site.

Also try Matthew at http://www.sisleyclothing.com.au/

He is specially making me a pair of nomex flight trousers at the mo and have been very pleased with their service. They will ship to anywhere in the world.

I know its not UK but still worth a look.

R22 :ok:

We use flightsuits in the US as well. Good product. I know guys in Oz using Sisley. and the say they make a good product.

Flying Suits
 

Strange question...

Anyone ever tried dying a Mk14a flying suit???

If so, how successful was it?

Tried it once. Complete failure. I believe that the romper suits are virtually un-dyeable - one of the characteristics of Nomex perhaps?

Ginger Spinner,

Once had a pair of Nomex burned off me while inflight. Hydraulic fed fire caused by some rather high speed FOD came my way. Six weeks waiting for the burns to heal. The places where the baggy pockets doubled or tripled the fabric had the lesser burns and the single thickness areas especially the area where the fabric pulls tight over the leg above the knee received the most damage.

Nomex has the characteristic of not melting like other man made fibers. That prevents the melting fabric from sticking to the skin and causing very serious problems after the fire.

I would suggest clean unstarched natural fiber clothing provides as much protection as does the Nomex. A nice leather jacket over a 100% cotton shirt and 100% cotton undershirt will work fine. Same thing for the trousers, 100% cotton or wool material would work fine.

Anything nylon, polyester, or other similar materials to include panty hose for the Ladies are killers during fires.

Nomex flight suits only work in flash or short duration exposure to fires. If you find yourself in a hot fire for any length of time nomex burns off like natural materials.

Given a Choice of a single safety device, I would rank them this way:

1- Helmet
2-Leather or Nomex/Leather Gloves
3-Above the ankle solid leather boots
4-Nomex flight suit

The helmet gives you a better chance to survive the crash, the gloves will guard your hands so you might be able to use them later, the boots do the same for your feet, and lastly the flight suit keeps grease off your clothes.

As stated, it is important to wear something under a nomex suit to create a thermal barrier between your skin and the nomex. I wear Icebreaker under-clothes under my flight suit. They are made from natual merino wool which keeps you warm in winter, and they are quite cool in summer.
They have the added benefit of going days without washing, and not starting to stink! There are different layers available and I use several when the temp really drops down in winter.

www.icebreaker.com

Flight Suit
 

Where can i get a very light nomex flight suit??? has to be as light as poss.

Flying suits from either Nomex or Proban
 

Guys,

There's a company called Jays Racewear that supply motor racing suits and flying suits.

They can be reached at http://www.jaysracewear.co.uk

Take a look.

Broomstick.

Flying suits
 

Had multifabs suit did not wear well, had a darby unitex suit not impressed.
Now I have a back up RSH suit which I hate the collar on but I think an aviation supplier has taken on the supply (TA?).
I have recently been to Jays and what they have supplied seems very good they have supplied the MOD display teams for sometime REDS/BLUES....
They offer a range off Mods for heli pilots vented under arms, not sure about the zipped cuffs to the elbow.
Supplied in four weeks and good price
Take care with the self measurement.
I dont work for them but the best I have seen in 12 years non military supplied.

In the UK
http://www.xinteractiveclothing.com/index.htm

US
http://www.aureusinternational.com/

Aureus also supplies to the military.

transportation suits?
 

Can anyone advise if they know of a standard approval in the US for helicopter transportation suits? I am interested in the basic approval for the Nomex suit and testing standards. I am also interested if there is an approval with regards to an integrated immersion/dry suit for Offshore over the water transportation. Canada approved suits for Offshore oil market have dual Canadian Transport and SOLAS(Safety of Life At Sea) for these types of suits but I cannot find if there is a US equivalent. Have called around with no luck.:ugh:

Thanks.

No US transportation or immersion suit requirement for aviation. The Department of Interior has a requirement in their aviation guide (http://www.oas.gov/hqtrain/forms/refguide.PDF), and the parts of the CFR that govern marine operations have requirements for immersion and abandonment suits.

Use in the commercial market is driven by company standards. We're looking at the updated Transport Canada regs for our upcoming suit purchase. Previous use has been leased suits from a North Sea provider.

Thanks
 

We have been considering the Viking dual approved transportation/immersion suit. I believe it is the first dual approved CT and Solas suit of its kind where the built-in life vest can be set for manual in the helicopter and then automatic while on the rig. I read a lot about it in the offshore trade magazines. Need a suit for Offshore Alaska. Looked like the best choice.

Thank you for the info.

check out
www.massif.com
excellent nomex clothing, use it for winter heli-skiing and summer work. Elements jacket is a great all-purpose jacket and is pretty well waterproof - bib overalls work in conjunction for winter work. Lots of options for layering - also it all stretches, great after too big a meal.
They have a new flightsuit line - haven't tried it yet. A bit costly, but the quality is worth it.