Converting non-JAA (Including FAA) license to JAA licence
 

Hello all, Well i had a look through all info that had nicely been put together but couldnt find ( not saying its not there ) the kind i need.

So, Has anyone recent experience of converting a non-jaa license to a jaa license?? any advice on schools to use or any loopholes like training in France to make it cheaper???
I currently have 1800 hrs and didnt really want to take a year on a distance training course before i could fly again.

Any advice is better than none.

Cheers Lee

No short cuts unfortunately, if you do plan doing the distance learning route, Bristol ground school, or else Cabair if you are going residential.

New CPL(H)!!
 

Hi Charlie,

Just wondered about the last bit of your post. The new CPL(H) exams?. I would be in the same position as the last chap. In the US working, would like to do the corresopndance course hold ICAO CPL(H). Any recommendations?
Thank you for your advice in advance

Darren

Thanks for your help charlie, i did contact cabair and was told i could either do a one year distance learning with a one week visit every three months or 19 weeks for the in house ground training.

I was told about the "discrestion of the trainer" part by the CAA but there doesnt seem to be alot of approved schools that teach to CPL(H) level or offer condensed ground training courses.

I have heard before that bristol is supposed to be good so i think i will check them out for the distance training. But anyone with advice for a good school for the flying??

Lee

But anyone with advice for a good school for the flying??

leee
There's lots of information about different flying schools in the training threads.

Heliport

NEW CPL H EXAMS?
 

Hi Charlie's charlie

You mention "NEW CPL H" exams in your earlier posts, PLEASE, PLEASE tell us more. Thanks

Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

I am sure that this question has probably been addressed before but I am relatively new to Pprune so bear with me :O I have a FAA CPL and am currently a CFII. I plan to work in the US for a few more years build experience and get my ATP. Does anyone know if there is a way to covert over to a JAA ATPL without taking all 14 exams? :eek: What kind of experience should I be building while I'm here? Eventually I would like to work off-shore few weeks on, few weeks off. Thanks for your input....

Re: Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

I myself had gone through all this before trying to figure it out through numerous calls to the CAA in England. If you do a search through the Rotorheads Forum you will find the answers to your questions, but to cut it short there is no short cut!
As it stands last time I was investigating over a year and half ago, you will have to sit all the exams and possibly do some flying time. The CAA told me the amount of time required is up to the flight school, so pick a school that is honest and not gonna stiff you. It could be 5 hours or 30 hours.
There are numerous options to getting the exams done. Going to a crash cours for 6 months or so at Cabair or Oxford, or doing the online version which would take about a year. The best I have heard for the online training is Bristol.
To answer some of your questions you need to explain what citizenship you have. I gather you are most likely a European who went to HAI or something and on the 2 year work visa. There are many options out there, and it all depends where and what you want to do.
Good luck!

Re: Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

Thanks for the help, I am sure I will have to do lots of research. :yuk: I am actually an American married to a European who has the JAA frozen ATPL and FAA license already so we are able to fly in the US indefinately...

Re: Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

Try www.jaa.nl Look up FCL 2 (Flight Crew Licensing - Helicopters) It'll at least tell you what you are up against and the subject material to study for any exams you have to complete. If you have a frozen ATPL and you have not completed your IR in 3 years or less, it may cause the invalidity of the frozen ATPL exams. Each authority seems to have a different 'Take' on the interpretation of the regulation. But then the ambiguity is wide.....and that applies to alot of JAA Blah!!!!:cool:

Re: Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

Helichick

I have said this before but:

"Welcome to the world of you don't know anything about flying until we show you and take your money off you".

Also look at LASORS on the UK CAA website. Alot of information in there.

Re: Converting FAA ATP to JAA ATPL
 

Helichick
Have a look at the other thread about "Flying in Europe with an FAA license". Very frustrating process and I would guess that you would have to do all 14 examinations, the flight test and fork out lots of $$/GBP/Euro's. As per the other advice you got.
Jab

All about converting
 

I have FAA licenses. CPL-H + IR

I am leaving back for Europe. I know the normal way is 6-9 months school, 14 exams ATPL etc. :bored:
Everyday I hear new rumors about the conversion part. But most is probably just a dream. I know it was my own choise to get my FAA license first, even when I knew I had to convert after I am done in the US.
I have started to realise how much work it is to convert to JAA today. To be honest I think the JAA organsiation is a little :mad: . But thats my sight.
I would like to know if anyone can either confirm or kill a rumor.
Some people say it is easier to convert to a JAA license, if you have a CAA license. Like from Canada. Is this true, if yes what is the difference? :confused:

In my humble opinion I find that people who think the JAA organisation is a little :mad: where exams are concerned are too lazy to write them. You said yourself you have started to realise how much work it is to convert to JAA today - everyone is looking for the easy way out. My suggestion is stop moaning about how hard it is, do a bit of studying, and take the exams.
Rant over..

Mort

Firstly, the only grace you will get when converting is for the flying training. No way to get past the theory exams.

Foreigner

I personally think the JAA system of 14 exams for the JAA ATPL is a load of :mad: Said it before and I will say it again.

Why wouldn't a pilot who has trained overseas, spent his hard earned cash, trained very hard and passed the flight (and theory) requirements try to find the easy route? I think every pilot should try and do the same. Why pay for something twice when you don't have to.:yuk:

Anywhere else in the world (other than the JAA) will recognise ICAO qualifications and have a "bridging" system.

Oogle is correct. The JAA system is designed to keep out those who did a licence somewhere else, and if you do want to fly there, then they will extract a large sum of cash from you, to pass exams you have already sat else where...sort of like a penalty really.

If they were really worried about others standards, they would let you sit a "Bridging" exam, or even let you sit the exams without doing an "approved" ground school course. If I know the theory, why won't you let me sit the exams??? "Ahhh, but without the ground school we don't know if you are at our standard" ...Well if I pass your exams, then I guess I must be...

I thought the "I" in ICAO stood for international?

Well, thx for the reply's.
And I am not moaning, never have and never will. But YES, I am looking for the cheapest way to get my JAA licenses. I feel the same way as BigMike here. If they where worried about the standards, why not let us only take the exams?
I find it funny and depressing to know the JAA system is so complicated for foreign licenses. Ofcourse they can require more than other countries, but 650 hours of ground required?? :mad:
I called the Australian CAA the other day, and asked what i need to do if I want theyr licenses. "You need to take our AIRLAW exam, and a practice test" . :ok: Thats the way it should be.

Just to clarify the situation regarding the amount of theory training required: if you have an ICAO CPL(H) and wish to convert to a JAA CPL(H) you do not have to undertake 650 hours of theory. That is only if you are wishing to convert your ICAO CPL(H) to JAA ATPL(H)

Lasors 2006 Section D Page 22

There is a similar section for converting an ICAO ATPL(H) to JAA ATPL(H).

Yes, I know that if I want to only get my CPL-H JAA license, i need 9 exams, not 14. I am not sure how much ground you need though.
But most companies require CPL-H , IR and atleast ATPL theory. So If i want to get my CPL-H and IR only thats 9 exams for the CPL and 7 for the IR. Total of 16 if I am not mistaken.
So, than you might as well go for the ATPL witch is 14.
Or am I wrong here? :confused:

ATPL(H) is probably the most sensible route.

But lets look at things realistically. You will have to be signed on with a course provider of some description or another before you can take the exams.

If you opt for a distance-learning course, which is cheapest way, then how are they going to know if you did 650 hours of study, or 5?

If your theory is up to the standard, then you won't have to do any more training than necessary. My guess is you will find the course notes and associated brush courses essential, far from being the waste of time many believe it would be.

This is in no way aimed at you personally, mortennb, but many people grumble profusely about the licence conversion. Particularly high time ICAO ATPL holders. Well, there is no minimum theory training requirements for them. If they believe their knowledge and understanding is on a par with that of the JAA system then just sit the exams. If it isn't, then the JAA has every right not to afford you a licence.

Any arguments about whether you actually need to know half the subject matter for the JAA exams is irrelevant.

A little help for the newcomer, please...?

So, if you need to get a JAA ATPL(H), you need to sign up with a bona fide course provider? Are there any recommendations/links etc?

Presumably, if you sign up for the course, you can't take the tests until after 650 hours are elapsed!

mongoose237, I think you will find that most people object to taking exams that they effectively have already sat, plus the associated high cost (14 x 55 GBP?) and loss of time from work etc. The conversion of a CPL is just as bad.
Do you honestly think that the JAA standard is better than anywhere else world?

No I do not, but that is a totally different argument. And yes, I have done the conversion which I agree was expensive and time consuming but like many the lure of JAA was the larger earning capacity once converted.

Many people will argue that the subject matter is vast and largely irrelevant. An argument which by its very nature will show that many ICAO licence holders have not been taught several of the syllabus points.

The JAA is not imposing more onerous requirements on a licence convertee than on an ab initio. To allow people to convert without having covered the syllabus which they have, rightly or wrongly, deemed necessary undermines their entire system.

I fully appreciate that if I choose to go to say, Japan, that I will have to either jump through, or have demonstrated that I have already jumped through, all the requirements that they prescribe for licence issue. And pay exorbitant fees. Any argument that I may have about the relevancy of their syllabus is a totally different matter IMVHO

If I felt there was a disparity between how licence convertees and ab initios were treated, then yes my argument would be different.

Mongoose

Obviously the Aussies, Kiwis, USA, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc think that an ICAO licence holds alot of water if a bridging exam is done but the Poms do not! Cayman and Bermuda just validate another ICAO licence. You are not saying that the pilots flying these aircraft are somewhat sub-standard I hope?

Look, I (luckily) do not need a JAA licence and I am well aware of the requirements if I one day need one but the differences are huge between countries. Maybe the JAA should leave ICAO altogether.

No, I hold several of the licences that you list there. I have tried to make a clear distinction between what I see as 2 separate arguments:
1. The licencing standards; and
2. Disparity in treatment between people trying to obtain a particular licence

Yes, JAA should have a bridging exam, and I am sure that eventually there will be one. But expect it to be very large to cover the huge differences in syllabus requirements. Will that change much in reality? Surely just jumping through the same hoops but under a different title.

If the JAA felt that your flying ability was substandard then they would require you to undertake more flying training, which isn't generally the case.

i4iq
Yes you will need to sign on with a course provider as either you are required to undertake their full course, or their Head of Training is required to say how much training you require. You can undertake the courses either full-time residential, or distance-learning with a series of progress tests and revision courses.

See Page 9, Standards Document 31 for a list of Training Providers

Bristol Groundschool do a very good distance learning ATPL theory course IMO

Thanks for the link mongoose237

I'd need to do the course from outside the UK. In which case, would the Head of Training assess what I've done by qualifications (eg FAA CFII) or by some kind of test? Also, would the stage tests be able to be done remotely too? Or are they done in some kind of controlled environment?

You would have to speak to the course providers themselves as to how they will assess your training requirements if you fall into an exempted category.

Certainly some of the ATPL distance learning courses can be done from outside the country, however others do require attendance periodically.

Bristol have a computerised notes and testing system, which can be faxed or submitted electronically for marking.
The only attendance is in the 2 weeks immediately preceeding the exams, which can be waived if you fall into the "determined by the Head of Training" exemption.

Thanks again. I'll see what they have to say...

Converting costs
 

Converting from FAA to JAA is really not that expensive. As far as the flying portion, as long as you have 185 hours (incl. the required no. of night, X country, P1 etc) you can do your skills test without having to do a 30 hour modular course of flying training.

The rules are the rules and if you want the benefits just get on with it rather than moan. If you dont like the rules then respect those who have had to endure 'The system' and have put their money where their mouth is.
Thankyou.

Someone above mentioned other countries just validate you license. Now that's something different then getting the countries full-license.

If you have a FAA license with enough hours, you can get that license validated here as well. But it's a validation and only valid for 1 year.

There is no real conversion to a JAA license as far CPL, IR and ATPL go. And there lies the problem. But everything will be solved when EASA takes over the licensing and the whole JAA system will be binned.

Convering.
 

Sorry, forgot to mention that yes all the exams need to be passed also.

Would you please explain what exactly you mean?

I don't understand "binned".

And the JAR's are new. When will this be replaced by another system?

regards...

EASA takes over from 1-1-2007, simplyfing and working close with the FAA.

Hopefully the helicopter exams will become more helicopter specific.

Do anybody know when the EASA will take over the licensing from the JAA:confused:

Well, that might be. But if you want the full license of another ICAO countrie. All you need is take the airlaw exam, and 1 flight with a "examiner".

This is written on my countries CAA website.


JAA asumed being shut down within 2007-2008, and will be replaced by a smaller organisation witch in co work with EASA will handle countries who is not a member of the EU or a EASA member. This is extremly important for a safe flightlevel in Europe.

I think most countries carry the caveat that you must have met all their licencing requirements, such as minimum hours etc etc.

For example, and I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the NZ licence requires some external load training. If you do not have that training, I am led to believe that they will not afford you the licence until you complete such training.

JAR to Canadian licence
 

hi!
I wonder about what should I do for a conversion from JAR licence to a candian licence. (sorry to be a little off topic).
Also I don't really know much about EASA, but should I wait after the 1-1-2007, to make a conversion of licence (maybe easier)?

Canada is all over! yeah!