Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
 

I recently passed my JAR Class 1 medical, and am now seriously considering following through and becoming a CPL(H)

I have 82.6 heli hours of which >20 are JetRanger/H500 and 50 PPL(A) hours (if that counts for anything). I don't have an IMC or IR rating, nor a night rating. Just plain ol' VFR.

As I have a full-time job, I can't attend full-time study but understand there are "distance learning" courses available.

So, what are my options? What should I be doing next? Can anyone recommend a suitable course of study for the exams? And books/videos?

Is the future rosy for up-and-coming commercial helo pilots? (I'm led to believe that there is a shortage of them)

Darren

If you want options-go fixed wing!!

agree 100% with the previous post!
until you have 1000+/1500+ you're not qoing to even be looked at...even then, you're a dime a dozen. and pay? not unless you're lucky enough to get LL experience and then land a decent contract. but even that work is cyclical. And remain single and without family 'cause you will travel the world if seeking the $$$$$.

Seriously though, go the f/w route,at least check out all the options.
get with airline and make a Decent living, family and all.
then fly the helis for fun!

Good luck to you ;)

Oh dear, in the light of your replies, things do look rather grim :-( Are they *really* that bad? Aren't helicopters much more versatile, even if I gain a twin type rating (for example, Twin Squirrel or Augusta 109)?

What is "LL" in the last posting?

So what are my options fixed-wing then? I wouldn't have thought, at my age (I'm 33 next March), that the airlines would even look at me.

(Looking for a glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel...)

Darren

I agree to a certain extent with the other posts, but if it's helicopters that you want to fly; fly helicopters. If you want to earn money, fly fixed wing. It is really difficult to get the licence, I know two people that gave up on trying to get the UK licence, and that was after flying for a number of years abroad. I am looking for work in this country after finally jumping through all the CAA hoops. It's amazing how difficult they can make it. Add to that the time it takes waiting to take exams, waiting for results, etc. etc. It costs a fortune.
If you're single I would definitely consider going to the states or Canada to do your training. The job prospects are significantly better over there and if you go to the right school, you'll get a visa to work for two years. That should be enough to get your experience up to around a thousand hours or so.
The problem is; if you want to work here, you will still have to go through all the CAA Bull to get the UK licence. It's extremely frustrating, BELIEVE ME!
Get as much info as you can, there's only yourself can decide, I'm 34 now and I went to the USA in 1996 to get a CPL, I love it, it's taken me all over the world and I wouldn't do anything else.
Hope that helps.

Heliflyer:

I've been reading quite a few posts lately, advising people to go siezed-wing. I say Bullocks. You had the correct conclusion about age, with regards to the airlines.

Everyone seems to think the grass is greener on the F/W side but believe me, unless you are a young sprog that can be tailored to the Airline industry, you have a much better shot in the fling-wing world.

I have several freinds who, when starting to fly helicopters, were on their third career. These individuals are now in their late forties and are Offshore Captains earning a very good salary.

Only you can decide where you want to go, but if at the end of the day you can say you're happy with the choices you made, then you obviously made the right decision.

By the way LL is Long Lining.

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif


[This message has been edited by offshoreigor (edited 01 December 2000).]

If you want to fly helicopters, go do it an don't listen to anyone else - same goes if you want to be a photographer, or a dustman! Only you know what's best for you.

However, you need to be aware that professional helicoptering is a whole different ball game, in that the pay you get just about covers you for the paperwork and BS, and the poling is the icing on the cake. There's a lot to be gained from the job, and having seen both sides of the coin, the British licence is more academic, but the Canadian is more practical, aside from needing about 600 hours less to qualify. I am certainly a way better pilot having done a couple of seasons in Canada.

Wherever you go, you need about 1000 hours to be employable, or have some sort of specialisation, so if you can only afford about 300, make sure you have a mountain course, an IR or get the guys to give you a thorough grounding in longlining (kinda fun), assuming that your instructors have actually done the job - when I finally got around to doing my Canadian commercial, only one of the instructors had any real commercial experience, and I was teaching him a few things about going into clearings!

I did an article in Pilot about flying in Canada and doing the commercial ride - I believe it was about 9 months ago. If you haven't got any back copies I may be able to dig up the text.

Oh yes, ignore any schools who say they will employ you after your course. At least, only regard it as a minor factor in your decision.

Hope that helps!

Phil

'H', you're a database consultant. presumably it pays for your lessons but doesn't give you much fun, eh?
I'm assuming you want to end up in the UK and to that end, I can assure you, anything commercial (jobs) requires an ATPL(H)if that job is a good one. That will cost you around £50,000 ish! Still interested? Anything less than ATPL may get you into a lower profile slot with their inherent insecurities (not all, but most).
If you want to fly helo's for fun, stick with it and do it because it's different. If you want to support a decent (financial) lifestyle...go FW.
http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/A...helicopter.gif
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TC

[This message has been edited by Thomas coupling (edited 03 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Thomas coupling (edited 03 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Thomas coupling (edited 03 December 2000).]

What are my chances?
 

Hi,
According to my peers I must have become bored with living, because I have decided to change my intended career path from shiny big jets to helicopters. The only problem is, I'm 20 with 43hrs(A).
I'm lucky enough to have financial backing to do whatever I choose but I obviously have a few questions which I hope someone might shed some light on.
Where's the best place to train, USA or UK? Anyone had an expereince of HAI?
What is the helicopter job market like? What kind of jobs could I expect with a fresh JAA-CPL etc?
Does anyone offer any kind of sponsorship, or do any school have good links with employers?
I have already got an RAF Scholarship and have got through to the last stage of BA selection.
Many thanks in advance,
GA


[This message has been edited by Go-Around (edited 11 December 2000).]

Hmmmm. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you are making the wrong move. I'm on the rotary side, and I am considering the opposite move.
There is definitely a bigger difference in the top and bottom salaries on the fixed-wing side, than on the rotary side.
Put another way: Considering the cost of gaining a professional rotary qualification, the financial reward is not there !.

Eggbeater,
What about job satisfaction ?? There's more to a job than just salaries. I've been in helo's for 16yrs now & it's the best job in the world (my humble opinion of course)& the money's not that bad either. I'd say go for it "Go-Around"! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

Go-around, the one question you didn't ask is, why are so many helicopter pilots going fixed wing?

I got my CPL(H) about 18 months ago and have hardly left the ground since. Now seems not to be a good time to get into rotary wing flying.
If you've got the chance of going into the RAF, it might be worth taking it - ask on the military thread what the chances are of streaming into rotary and what the life's like. If you're through to BA's final stages, it would certainly be worth having a go at that and using your financial backing to get a PPL(H) - you can fly for a (good) living and blat around in helicopters for fun. Best of both worlds.

Scattercat - I've no doubt that with 16 years under your belt you've got the experience, training and hours to move easily from job to job, so that you can find one you love and pays. As a tyro at the moment it's nigh-on impossible.

HOGE,

I think because by the time you make it good in heli's you're no longer single, etc. and $$$ becomes a factor. Family, etc.

Being single and not caring about the $$$, heli's will always be what I want :)



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Marc

So disregarding the fact i will work all hours God sends, be away from home 4 ever and day and not earn that much, it doesn't sound that bad!!!<g>
OK I don't mean to annoy anyone just provoke some thought.
Do some of you guys fly just for the money? I'm sure most people can program a FMC and fly that way. Isn't helicopter flying a challenge, especially in weather you rig pilots get? Does no-one like a challenge any more? Is it not about as hands on as you can get?
I am looking for an aviation challenge (just getting my foot in the door is the hardest) and i can think of nothing better than helicopters. Maybe some people should take a step back and think about why they got into flying in the first place.
(Give me 5 years and I'll be moaning with the best of them!)
So to my original point, if I self sponsor myself to a JAA CPL(H) will Bristow et al want me, it sounds like they could be a bit short soon.
Cheers
GA

G-A,

>>So disregarding the fact i will work all hours God sends, be away from home 4 ever and day and not earn that much, it doesn't sound that bad!!!<<

Could always be worse, someone could be shooting at you :)

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Marc

I actually like my job, and I've always said I wouldn't be in it for the money.(Well that was lucky!). It can be a great job, it can also be a pain of a job sometimes. My concern is how much longer it will continue to be a job. 10 years more on the North Sea, 15 maybe, then what?? Where's the reinvestment?

Thought of training in NZ?

More Helis per capita than any other country,
many reasons to use them and many things done with them.

No "little pilot" CPL licences either (I do NOT mean UK!)

Probably the slingloading mecca of the world.

With the US$ and pound exchange rate as it is with the kiwi $ our training is for almost nothing.

Check my site, and my employer's, which you can get through my profile.

Anyway, if you want to do the big wings then
here's how to check it out.

(1) Find someone who has a house with bay window.

(2) Get comfy chair and someone to bring you a coffee now and then.

(3) Sit in window all day, dawn til dusk, watch it become light and then watch it become dark.

(4)After you have done 12 hrs of that, ask yourself again what it is you want.

OK?

All the best whatever you do!

I like your analogy!

Thanks.....

Which one?

"Little pilot" or "Bay window??!!

And by the way -

HAI is an excellent company by all accounts.

When last in UK I asked to to my instructor renewal with George Bedford (Bristow, and a
very good instructor examiner) and I found he'd shipped out to be Cheif Pilot at HAI.

The company must have got better for that.

SPS :

That happened when Bristows stopped doing their own training at Redhill. HAI now do, as far as I'm aware, all the CAA suff in Florida, if they've moved by now.

I'm tempted to go there when I've got the hours to do the modular course - it'll save me some money !!

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I got bored with "WhoNeedsRunways"

Go-around.

I am one of the many pilots leaving the North Sea for the fixed-wing world.

But I think you are doing the right thing. Firstly, if you do get a CPL(A) your possibilities of getting that first job are close to zero. But I think if you hold a
CPL(H) in the next couple of years your chances are quite good. But as always, this depends on the oil price.

I have enjoyed my time in the North Sea, and I don't think you will find a finer bunch of people to work with (excluding management). It has been a good place to enhance my flying experience and to fly in one of the most taxing jobs in aviation.

Also at your age, you can still move over to fixed-wing if your circumstances change.

GO FOR IT!!!!!!!


MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY AND SAFE NEW YEAR!!!!


[This message has been edited by UNLOB (edited 25 December 2000).]

If you're into helos in your low 20s, perhaps you can get some fun under your belt before moving onto something a bit more stable and luvrative. Green military helicopters certainly get to play in some interesting places, but if you're talking to a recruiter about RAF helo careers, don't forget SAR. Heavy weather, pretty stable and I've got a pretty good job satisfaction score, I'd say. A lot of military folk wouldn't touch the role with a barge-pole either, so volunteers are always welcome. Of course, it's a specialization with civilian opportunities too - home and abroad. Good luck.

Try Heliswiss in Berne Switzerland for real mountain flying and a serious course.

Vlift...excellent addition. I was trying to use the water analogy in my post, but couldn't figure out a way to say it without sounding stupid. You nailed it. Bravo.

So many questions
 

As somebody who itends to start pilot training in the near future could you please tell me where you did your training, how did your career progress and where would you do your training if you were to do it now. Any other advice is appreciated.

Cheers

Lee

[This message has been edited by Lee Harris (edited 26 March 2001).]

I did my training in my hometown in NZ. Good location, mountains 10 mins flight away, uncluttered airspace with CTA's within 1hr to 2hrs in most headings. Did instructors rating & had first ft job b4 I had even finished the rating. Was instructing & comm flying for the first 3yrs after training ft. Got hrs up v quickly then secured a contract in the Central Plateau which was all mountain air transport with minimal lifting etc. Having the instructors rating has been ideal & even now with the flying in PNG the instructing has been some of the most satisfying,challenging & demanding flying I have been exposed to. You are never without a job either as there always seems to be someone around looking for an instructor. If you are going to get into it, do so under no illusions about the job market & how tough it is out there once you have succeeded in obtaining the vital ingredient. You have to be single minded about it & be prepared to be turned down more times than you can count - unless you are born into it or have a good family friend which are invaluable to further you career. Whatever happens, keep it lighthearted & enjoy your training because I sometimes, even now, find myself yearning to be a student all over again. Its awesome fun.

Lee, depends where you live, what you want to do with your licence and how much money you've got. You can do it here at umpteen schools on an approved course, over the Net(for your groundschool), do a Jaa licence in the States(cheep, cheep), do an Faa, then a CFI work for 24 months on a J1 visa (hours building) There are many options.....
However the hardest thing you will probably have to do is get your first job to build your hours as 'they' want you to have hours to get the job. Let me know if you want specific advice, happy to help. Good luck and keep your chopper up.

Hi Robsibk

I'm in Calgary, operating 3 206s and 3 AStars between here and Fort Nelson. I did my own mountain flying in the military, but, to be honest, I learnt more over 2 days in Scotland with a chap who had been in Nepal with Bristows for 15 years, so I guess it only goes to show that all courses are not equal! Certainly, try Canadian in Penticton, but they aren't the only ones there - just find out who you're comfortable with, just making sure that what they teach you is accepted elsewhere in the industry, since the only "standard" is what's recommended by the HAC or what customers want. Mountain flying, like longlining, is not as hard or mysterious as people make out, which is not to say it doesn't need care or your full attention, but it's nothing that good training and a sensible attitude can't cure.

Good luck in your job search - it appears to be a good time to look right now

cheers

phil

[This message has been edited by paco (edited 28 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by paco (edited 28 March 2001).]

How realistic is it to expect to get a CFI job in the states on a J1. Also - how many hours do you reckon you could get without having to fly in your sleep

Lee:

Canadian Forces, SeaKings, Crew Commander, Base Rescue, UH-1H (205), SAR Captain, got out after 8 years went to the Air Ambulance in Ontario then Offshore Captain overseas within the same company.

If I had to do it again, see the above.

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif


[This message has been edited by offshoreigor (edited 02 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by offshoreigor (edited 02 April 2001).]

I trained in the States at HAI, turned out to be a good move as after training they gave me a job and I managed to work out the remainder of the J1 to get 1100 hours before I was kicked out of the Good Ol' US of A.

As a bonus at HAI I also did the UK exams and left with a CAA CPL(H) and FI rating. Since then I have worked in the UK and now based overseas flying 212 and 412's. Not too shabby for 3 and a half years from getting into a helicopter.

I would recommend HAI as they are now in Florida, cheaper than the UK and they offer the chance to get a CAA license. The other benefit is they will help getting you a CFI job, they don't guarentee a job but they have so many grads working all over the US they know really well when jobs become available. You'll also make a lot of contacts you'll bump into/duck to avoid throughout your career. Only drawback at HAI as an instructor was a lack of turban...(sorry, that's another string) turbine hours.

As to the flying hours as a CFI, I worked really hard for the first year (7 days a week) to get 900 flown and then had spare time to study for the CAA exams as I worked out the last of my time on the J1. Just do what you have to do to get the time.

Good luck,

Gov

[This message has been edited by The Governor (edited 03 April 2001).]

HELP, best way to learn?
 

In the process of saving pennies at the moment, but I'm checking out schools etc. Intention to gain CPL(H) from zero hours, I do hold PPL(A). Is it best to learn in the US then convert to CAA? Chances of getting a job with just CPL(H) and a couple of hundred hours? If so is it just with off-shore oil firms or are there other starter positions available? Thanks

Rene,
In a similar position to you.
1 hour, and working towards PPL(H) as the start to the modular CPL(H).
Wanna swap hints and tips?????
I'll try to e mail you direct over the weekend.


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It went Earth,Sky,
AMBULANCE

Hope you are young, wealthy and patient.

Good luck to you both.........

[before the rest of you comment, it's the truth they need to hear not sentiment!]

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Thermal runaway.

TC.
28, Class 1 medical passed. 50K available (have been working towards this for a long time!)Committed and very determined.Loved the limited flying I've done in helicopters.Want out of what I do and would quite happily teach rotary for the rest of my working days.Sane enough to take the lows with the highs,have support from my good lady.If I don't succeed intend to have enjoyed trying to its full potential.Aside from luck what else do I need???? :)

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It went Earth,Sky,
AMBULANCE

Quidam:

It's nice to know that there are still dreamers out there.

But if I were you, with 50K, I'd go fixed wing.

Anyway... if your passion is the choppers, be really prepared to take the ups and downs as you said, and good luck to you.

Happy flight!

Hi Rene !

Is that an Austrian PPL that you have????

Good luck!
Roberto

Thank you all!
Why I appreciate everyones response and those of you good enough to inform us humble wannabes that it is an expensive and hard road to tread, no-one has actually provided any information on how to break into this fantastic profession.

Any productive feedback would be very much appreciated indeed, Thnak you