Obtaining an FAA Professional Licence
 

Hello everybody,

I was just thinking if anybody knew what books you need to study for the CPL (H) in USA?

I am planning to go there in April and I would like to start looking into them.

Thank you.
Jonas

This years FAR/AIM for starters. It comes on a CD rom for easy mailing.

Try the ASA people on www.asa2fly.com - you see their books around most flight schools. I used the Private Pilot Test Prep and I guess they have one for CPL. Its for all flying machines but they have picked out the (H) questions for you.

FAA Flight Standards do the definitive "Rotorcraft Flying Handbook" which puts rotary into American vocabulary. You can buy it in most flight shops. (FAA-H-8083-21 is their book code.) Although it starts at PPL level it contains most of what you'll need at CPL and especially if you go to FI level.

My 2 cents.

I recommend “Principles of Helicopter Flight” by W.J. Wagtendonk and “The Art and Science of Flying Helicopters” by Shawn Coyle along with the other books listed in the prior posts. Also, pick up the FAA’s Aviation Weather book.

ASA has books and CD’s for the written. I have used the CD’s and it’s good to use them to get the exam out of the way but all you will know is the correct answer to the question without knowing why.

What Flight School are you going to ? Send a message.

FAR Part 61 Sec 61.153

That should help you out

:D

Its very straight forward...............

Approach a Flight School.....have them send you the Theory Books........study them on the Jet on the way to the US.......do the Cyber Exams at the Airport........[Remember the Questions and Answers are supplied in the books]....do a Basic Handling Test with the IFR Component [can be done on a VFR R22....], VOR/NDB/ILS and then a face to face verbal with the Examiner..........FAA ATPL.

If you wish me to send the name of the school and Examiner that I would reccomend....drop me a private message.

That sounds a bit easier than it actually is old man, I was under the impression there is a minimum mandatory training requirement followed by the flight test. The Oral can vary depending on how keen the examiner is and how much time is available. Flungdung, this can be achieved in the UK as well and inexpensively if you are current on the R22, the advice I would offer is square away the computer exam but gen up on the oral, learn US airspace for instance.

Having worked under the FAA system for years...it really is as simple as I stated..............

[I do hold and exercise all but FAA Examiner Status]

However the conversion I am talking about is a current ATPL with IR [oversea's].....to an FAA ATPL...............

Depending on the attitude of the Examiner, you don't even have to be a "Command" [Endorsed on type] pilot on the Test...............however most Examiners won't accept the responsibility of being the "Commander" in case the aircraft is damaged......but there are some.

I do agree that the Attitude of the Examiner will be a significant influence on the outcome.........The discussion that the Examiner has is normally related to aircraft / practical subjects......remember you have already passed the theory aspects.......

The USA FAA System may sound simple and easy........but it is a very practicable and common sense viewpoint in ensuring the best output with the minimmum of Red Tape.........

Also check out the FAQ's on Airman Certification on the FAA website www.faa.gov. Official answers to questions from the field, loads of good gen. I'm useless with computers so regretably can't post a direct link.

Why do you want an FAA ATPL (or as our American allies say ATP-RH certificate)? Let me guess, ARAMCO is hiring again in Saudi Arabia?? Don't forget to pack your gas mask, the war is about to start!!

FAA Commercial Add On
 

Peeps,

I have recently been scratching an old itch and doing some nosing around into the world of heli's and kept seeing training schools banding the phrase "commercial add on" about. Further digging and this appears to be a course that gives you an FAA CPL(H) with only a shade over 50 hrs in helicopters if you already hold an FAA CPL(A).
Now, as I have precisely 0 hrs heli time ( but a cpl fixed wing ) and will never claim to be an expert in such matters, but isn't this a little low on the experience side to be dishing out CPL's ? or have I totally got the wrong end of the side and talking out of my derrierre?

I'm curious to know what the above course actually entails as it blows away the misconception that I can never train to be a heli commercial pilot as the costs involved are prohibative.

I guess this subject has been done before, but accept my apologese as the search function on our dear old pprune appears to be u/s.

Thanks.

You are correct when you state that it is a little on the low time.

It is also practically impossible to do it in 50 hours. The 50 hours has to consist of at least 35 hours PIC. Now you can't log PIC time until you are either (1) a private pilot or (2) flying solo. This essentially means that in 15 hours you would have to master hovering, autorotations and everything else. Quite why the 50 hours is given is beyond me.
What we normally do is to recommend folks to get the private add on first and then do the commercial add on after. Once you are a private pilot everything can be logged as PIC. Normally we see most folks doing it in around 70 - 80 hours. Still a little low to be doing commercial work!

Hope that helps a bit.

Its the Cheapest way to get a Helicopter rating, by far. It will get you the ticket. But you wont be marketable for some time. Anyway if your a F/W driver you dont need the cut in pay.
Call one of the flight schools or surf places like www.heli.com . They do the work and can give you the straight scoop. Just remember they make less money off of an add-on, so watch out for any of these schools that give you the "Package Deals".
Good Luck

As far as I understand it, you'll end up as a VFR CPL(H). What are the requirements to get a heli instrument rating add-on?

You take an Instrument written test, the add-on is 15 questions, you then get around 6 hours of Instrument instruction in Helicopters and you take a check ride. When I did it, I was not current instruments and got both the Instrument and Instrument Instructor done in around 12 hours including a couple of hours for a flight check with the FAA. Its just some differences. Not much and the FAA dose not make a big issue of it. The CFI add-on writtens were 20 questions.

getting an FAA CPL(H) in the UK
 

hey,

I got a JAR ATP(H) + IR , but I want to get a FAA CPL(H) so i can do some charters on an N reg in the UK.

I have heard that you can do the computer knowledge test in the UK, and buy a CD to learn the questions and also that the FAA medical can be done over here, also I was told you can do the flight tests at coventry and I am not sure if I need additional training, as i am still flying the R22 reguarly.

anyone know wo I need to contact and the costs involved for

1) flight tests and additional training
2)licence issue
3)medical
4)grounschool material and tests
5)other hidden extras

also I am presuming that by basic premise is correct, i.e to do a charter on an N reg, that I do need this.

any info on this gratefully recieved

Hey,
Get the software from Jeppesen, you cannot fail the knowledge test if you do the course. I think its called "Commercial Pilot" and it has both courses of study (fixed wing and heli). It's about $250.

I don't know where in the UK you can do the computer test but you can certainly do it in Cork in Ireland with South Aer (www.southaer.com) the guys name there is Scott.

If you already have the JAA stuff the FAA will allow you away with just a flight test to convert the licence, I don't think piggy back licences are allowed anymore after September 11th. The flight test costs about $250 I think too. A guy called Adam House is an FAA examiner in the UK, I don't have his number but if you want post back here and I'll get it for you.

That's all I know buddy! :ok:

That's alright man I neglected to say about the medicals and that, the guy doing my test says technically you will be doing a ppl and cpl at the same time, but usually they wont ask you to do all the ppl stuff if you already have JAA licence. Then you send all the paperwork away together.

Camp Freddie,

good luck in getting your FAA commercial but I don't know how you plan to do 'charters' in the UK with an N Reg a/c. It ain't legal unless the Dept for Transport grant a Permission......... that goes for both public transport and aerial work. For more info suggest you have a look at the ANO (Art 115 and 113)

Mr Eagle,

yes please can I have Adam Houses number.

Mr Heliman,

thanks for that, that was exactly what I wanted to hear, the AOC holder that has an N reg, was telling me I can do, so I will do more research and read the ANO as advised as they are obviously confused as well.

do other peeps agree that it is not possible?

also thanks for the responses guys, just what I wanted

FAA licence in UK and work
 

Hi Guy's,
I've just joined this forum today, got the site address from a friend of a friend. Just after a bit of advise really.

I've been looking into doing my PPL(H) for some time and started taking lessons about 2 months ago (really got the bug) but in 2 months I've only done 3 hours air time mainly due to typical weather and the instructor is sort of part time.
I've been looking into going to california and doing the PPL(H) training in a six week course. I know this will give me a FAA licence and not a JAA/CAA licence but can it be converted when I get back home???
The other thing is work. I would love to get into the industry and fly for a living but having read all your lots comments, it seems a bit of a tough task. Seems even once you have got your CPL(H) no-one will touch you until you've got 1000+ under your belt, but how do you get thoughs hours in the first place if no-one will employ you???
So what about the FAA training. Its only gonna cost £5'000 for PPL(H) and £16'000 for both PPL and CPL (I say only but its a lot less than back here in Britain). I know you've probibly had a million new hopefuls ask this question but it seems like a mine field out there, any comments guy's would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot in advance
Lightning Boy

I would strongly recommend that you find a school that teaches FAA and CAA (JAA) courses. Why? Because you will spend the same amount of money converting your licence, as it cost to obtain it in the first place.
If you can end up with a stand alone FAA and JAA licences. This will mean taking two sets of medicals each time but it will give you a great amount of flexibility in your flying in Europe and the States. The school should run the courses concurrently with no real increase in cost but you may be required to sit 2 General Handling Tests (If the examiner is not dual certified).
To return to the UK with just a FAA PPL licence would be a bad move.

Hope this helps.

Any other questions just ask.

Assuming the UK is out, there are 3 options that spring to mind :-

1) Go to another JAA Member state where the exhange rate and/or built in costs are a bit cheaper.

2) Get a JAA license in the US - as far as I'm aware only one school is able to provide the full JAA course and that is Helicopter Adventures in Florida (www.heli.com)

3) Get a regular FAA PPL and do the conversion in a JAA country other than the UK (Norway for example).

As for work. Well you're right; getting a job with just a CPL is a very long shot.

The accepted path is to get PPL(H), CPL(H), CFI(H) and instruct for hours (possibly adding an IR and CFI/I to that).

However in that case your numbers are light. FAA ratings up to CFI(I) in the US for this are going to be more like 30000UKP. For equivalent JAA ratings done in the US, it'll be more like 35000UKP.

Finally factor in living costs while doing this (will probably take a little under a year) and then a low salary while instructing (since your pay is largely the hours you're getting).

I'm guessing it'll take around 5 years to get into a reasonable job where I can live a 'normal income' life again (I've only just started the process myself). In the meantime I have to watch the pennies v. carefully.

Cheers,

r.

Lightning Boy

There is no problem with converting an FAA PPL to a JAR PPL, but there are some requirements that must be met for license issue.

You must have at least a JAR class 2 medical, you must pass the current PPL air law exam, and the PPL skills test.

How much training you ay require to do this will be a matter to be assessed by your instructor, as there are differences between the 2 syllabi.

In general though provided you have been taught thoroughly for your FAA license, and do sufficient dual to become familiar with UK airspace and procedures, you will not have a problem.

:ok: Thanks for all the help guys, most appreciated. I can see its gonna be a long twisting road, hope its gonna be worth it when I get there.

Many Thanks
Lightning Boy :O

Alternatively, if you have a JAA PPL (which you can do in the US) then you can go through a short paper trail and FAA will issue you with an FAA PPL which (I quote from mine in front of me) is..

"Issued on basis of and valid only when accompanied by United Kingdom Pilot License Number...

All limitations and restrictions on the United Kingdom pilot license apply".


This is obviously only for private use, but nonetheless is probably the easiest way to have both PPLs.


Okay, I'm a plank pilot with just an engineering interest in rotaries, but so far as I'm aware there is no difference in this between FW and rotary.

G

I tried to resist saying that some of the replies are way out in price but here goes. My interest is I am the owner of Dutch Country Helicopters in Pennsylvania. At the moment, from scratch if you have no flying time at all, fixed wing or rotary a private will cost 40 hours x $200 or £4395. A 150 hour commercial is £16,393. If you have 100 hours fixed wing it is 50 hours only or £5464 at todays exchange rate.

If you are really serious about wanting to fly for a living some schools will employ you as a CFI if you train from scratch with them. I have certainly employed ex-students. You will probably get at least 1000 hours in 2 years.

A JAR compliant licence is of more use than either a standalone FAA or JAA licence. It will enable you to fly anywhere in the world without conversion.
I'm afraid that anyone telling you that the USA is not cheaper is dreaming. We charge £109 per flying hour for a Bell 47. Anyone in the UK beat that? No landing fees, fly 24 hours a day, no 500 foot rule. Paradise!

Since I was the only one to quote figures, I guess your comment about costs being off was directed at mine.

The difference is, the costs I quoted are for ab intitio to CFI/I that still runs to around $40000 if you do it in minimums.

Guess at more like $45000 for average and as high as $60000 if you pick it up slow. I heard of one person taking $25000 just to get their private because the school they were at wasn't too good.

A commercial license appears to be pretty much next to useless by itself so you may as well just stop at PPL.

Other thing is, everyone will quote the minimums to the various qualifications, but the average round here is more like 50 hours to PPL.

r.

Faa Atpl(h)
 

Does anyone know about going to the states with a Australian CPL(H) and a few thopusand hours and doing a ATPL(H)?
the best place to go to do it?
How much does it cost?
What you have to do and is it easy to transfer it back into a Australian ATPL(H)?

Longline
You will first need to get an FAA CPL issued, but first you need a clearance from FAA and imigration I think, before entering the country for flight training.
Then go to the States roll up to the FAA ,they will issue a PPL H based on your CASA CPL, then sit your CPL exam and flight test and get your FAA CPL.
Then under go IFR training, do some in a fixed Wing Dual dont worry about not having a FW licence , they accept this, then sit your 1 ATP exam and flight test.
Your best bet is contact Ron Gudstafson at Avia flight Services in Corvallis Oregon , He has done dozens of Australian and NZ conversions to FAA, he is a good bloke and he will not misled you. he runs a good outfit and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.
Conversion to CASA I am not sure about but under the Kiwi system you must have gained 500 hrs on the ATPL before they will reconize it, but then again they are the NZ CAA
"C***ts Against Aviation"

Hey Loneline,

I went to the States with a CAA (UK) CPL/IR and because I already had the hours to Qualify for the FAA ATP, I just did the instrument flying training and took the ATP checkride( which is almost identical to the instrument checkride) took the written and got my ATP without doing the commercial first, saved a whole bunch of time and money. I'm 99% sure that if you already have the hours to qualify (can't remember how many it is and my FAR/AIM has gone missing)!!! than you should be able to do this.
Just get your FAA private licence issued and start training on that.
I went to helicopter adventures in Titusville Florida and found them to be very professional.
All the best ,
Fatigue.:ok:

Transfering it back to Australian? Sounds like your trying to skirt something down under. Before you go to all that expense you had better check with those in the know down there or you may end up with an FAA ATP you cannot use.
If possible then the questions have been answered and the FAA exams are pretty straight Forward. A little study and a written with a BIG checkride and your in business.

An important aspect is how many night flight hours do you have? Australian pilots with 100+ night hours are few and far between (unless you fly twins), and you need 100 night hours to get an FAA ATPL rotorcraft certificate. So unless you have a 100 night hours forget about the FAA ATP certificate. And in any event, even if you have the FAA ATP you still need the required minimum hours (TT & PIC) for the CASA ATPL-H licence.

FAA ATPL to Aust ATPL
 

Longline

Check your PM's:O

FAA - CASA ATPL
 

You trying to get something for nothing??

The FAA ATPL with Exams is the easiest licence in the world to get, and being able to do the IFR component in a VFR R22 was a no brainer.
I have heard of guys just studying the books and answers on the 14 hr flight from YSSY to LAX and getting 100% on the exam....I had to have an extra nights study in a hotel and only got a 98%.

But Mate once you have that ATPL it is not worth a pinch of nanny goat stuff back in OZ.

If your thinking about being a professional Australian Helicopter Pilot, there is only one way to do that....study study and study, then feel good after you pass. Then do your IFR Traini ng in a proper aircraft in cloud.

Rant Over.

Hey Aussie Mate,
have to agree with ya about the FAA ATP exams (ground and flight).....it is just like the Ameican high school system, if you fail an exam you can take the same one again, and again, and again, and again and when you finally pass you're are told how good you have done.......instead of the truth that you are as thick as sh*t!!!!!!!! It's the american way of doing things:eek:

Fatigue.......
 

Duck or Run.............Incoming.:D

The American way of doing things............................if thats how you feel, you better leave 50% of the worlds heli's parked on the ground! They were built with American ingenuity. Then, ya better ground half the Hawk pilots at Wogga Wogga. They were trained by American's! Then you better.........screw it .....FU!:mad:

Hey Polar Bear.....
 

Geeee...Wagga Wagga is with "a's" not "o's"......and there's no Hawks down there either.

Trained by the Poms I think, and based at Willytown, not to far away at Mach 1.......!!

Unfortunately, the EC now has over 50% of both rotary and the big jet market. Not looking forward to Europe as much as I did Florida and Texas.

" THEY WERE BUILT WITH AMERICAN INGENUITY'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now where was Mr Sikorsky from again???????????????????? :p

I have a question

If my aim was to work in the UK and keep training costs down:-

-Wouldnt it be better to do a FAA PPL(H), hour build in the USA, and come back and complete a 30 hour modular course in England rather than

-Pay for your FAA CPL(H) in USA, then come back and convert it, as this way, you have to pay for the CPL exams in the USA and then the UK too.

Which option do you think is better?

Thanks