Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
 

Just pondering, and looking for feedback from those in the know. If you were dual qualified (A and H),and reasonably experienced on both (but more on plank), would you aim for long term rotary or plank. I have no desire to fly long haul, and would be happy with a reasonable salary. Your thoughts please gentlemen (and ladies).

From my experience doing both, flying with seized rotors becomes very boring after a short time. All airports look the same after all and the cruise portion (95%) of the flight offers little redeeming value. A plank career obviously has the potential of leading to one of those jobs where your taxes will be more than most helicopter pilots' entire salaries. But as in everything, there is a price to pay first.

From a "Joy of Flying" perspective (or Zen if you are that way inclined) rotor craft win hands down for me. A joy ride in an L33 can be fun, but as a full time vocation there is no flying like helicopter flying. It has an endless variety of activities to keep even the most jaded on their toes - logging, construction, scenic, EMS scenes, off-shore, SAR, ship-to-shore, VIP transport, luxury yachts, UN missions etc. etc. The list is endless. Last but not least, we often find ourselves developing relationships with our customers which last well beyond the job.

The flight pay may (justifyably) not be on par with airlines in general, but for the ambitious there are still good money making opportunities in the helo business as well. Logging, overseas and becoming a small operator are some that come to mind.

So I'll stick with the greates flying machines ever invented. I like being able to stop BEFORE I land.

=====ditto=====

Clear to Land

Agree with above sentiments

It's an old truth that Rotary pilots work for a living, And I enjoyed my Navy and Police helo flying Immensely.

As I got older, I moved over for the potential bigger bucks towards retirement and a bigger pension.

You don't say how old you are, but the world would appear to be your oyster. Enjoy the helicopters until the flying turns your hair grey, then put your feet up in a jet.

:) edited for bad spelin!

[This message has been edited by Arkroyal (edited 29 September 2000).]

Couldn't agree more.I've been thinking about putting me feet up too and was wondering if you had any suggestions about entering the fixed wing retirement program. I have the IFR rating but have found myself pulling logs instead of flying in the clouds most of my career.Thanks for any suggestions.

I agree with Arkroyal. Helis are great fun when you are young but flying a plank is soooooo relaxed. I have 8,000 rotary (crab, fish and north sea) and 3,500 plank (Boeings, 50/50 charter and schedule). As a plank skipper you'll get in excess of £3,300 net a month. What would a rotary guy get? Oh, and no goon-suit plus coffee/tea every 20 minutes.

Happy landings!

Why not go for the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS?!
-- TILTROTORS --
I have been told pay will be significantly more than us Rotorheads, although certainly less than the heavy iron.

Problem is you'll need at least equeal, and maybe more experience on the rotary side rather than fixed plank. Hovering and autorotations are no doubt the most difficult part of flying it (and the most fun), so you'll need lot's of previous experience before they let you hop into one. Maybe work on that for a while, because the first civil AB 609s won't be here till early 2003.

Definitely something to look forward to!!

Helis for sure.
I'm dual rated but nothing beats flying a helicopter.I would love to drive a large jet for while but the boredom factor would kill me according to my fixed wing friends and it appears to be difficult to break into that world anyway.

If you want to make money,go overseas,its possible to make 3000stg or more pm on contracts,most jobs are rotational so you can freelance on your free time.

As for tiltrotor you will need to be dualrated,with an instrument rating in one type(A or H).If you have a multieng (A) it will be an advantage but it is not necessary.However helicopter rated pilot will have the advantage due to the inherent problems which can occour with a helicopter such as settling with power.This has been brought home to the US Marine Corps due to the recent loss of a V-22 due to vortex ring state.You can find an excellent thread about this in the archives going back about 3 months.

Thanks for your input. It seems that the vote for fun is unanimous. I am currently flying plank on airmed, which is rewarding, but I do miss the helos. The tiltrotor sounds like the ultimate way to go, but I'm not sure if I should chase more helo time first (1000 hrs turbine s/e at present), as I have 4000+ plank. By the way I'm 32.
Cheers chaps.

3300 hrs (H), 200 (A). Definitely plank!!

1700 plank/multi. ATPL. 2100 on the thrashing palm tree. All in the RAF. Did the welded wings first. Boring even whilst dropping bombs. My wife could do it (probably). Rotary? fun, challenging, and I have 400 hrs below 200 ft on Night Vision goggles. Suck on that mr 4000hrs and I'm 32. (I'm 32).

Don't worry cleared to land,Deep Buffet is still under line training and with an attitude such as his he won't get anywhere in the civilian world.I'd love to see his sh*t scared face if he had to sit in an R22 for the first time with a low time student who tries to kill you once every 15 seconds

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft2/hh1h.gif

Humbled in your presence.
After 4000 hours (3300 helo...oh yes and 300+NVG!) I am off to a FJ QFI job.
Already I am hunting for some part-time rotary work.
Never forget your roots...to fly is indeed heavenly, but to hover is devine!
All the best.

Arm the floats.

R22's!!! Please, I do have some self respect! I haven't flown an aircraft without a full IFR suite and twin turbines for the last 11 years, and I'm not going to start now that I'm putting my feet up in the civvy world. And as for the suggestion that I would do something as demeaning as instructing no-hopers who couldn't pass military selection....HELLO!!!!
FYI, It's corporate 76's as dep chief pilot.

Deepbuffet
So you openly admit that your flying experience is limited!!

Dear Mr DeepBuffet, you do not have a monopoly on NVG time below 200 (I'm ex military as well), however with your attitude I'm surprised that anyone would enjoy working with you. You should respect every professional trying to make a living, so what if they are flying pistons. Quite frankly, you need to pull your head out.
My posting was not to big note myself, but to seek information from other professional aviators (this is obviously not you!)

Well said CTL, deepbuffet is so obviously a factory standard ex-crab with delusions of adequacy. I have met guys of his undoubted brilliant ability throughout my career and rather enjoyed seeing them sweat coldly the first time they are put in a position where flying the damn machine really matters. ie. Night, grotty Wx, and fully coupled "IFR suite" going horribly U/S. It doesn't matter if you have a snazzy job title (Deputy Chief Pilot in a company with only two pilots) if you can't get it home safely you will walk the walk.

DB must be taking the rise surely? No self respecting amoeba would speak like that!

Kaarrff, or whatever, well spoken. Deep (bag carrier) Buffet. You're either a wind-up merchant or a complete knob or both!!

If you think you can get bored doing a 5 sector Amsterdam out of LHR, in an an aircraft doing 340 knots, then you are certainly ace of the base and get all my respect and admiration, if not then you are heading for a snotty heap one day through your shear arrogance. I have both Atpl/H&A IR with more than ten x more low level experience than what has been bandied here, I don't get bored!

Tipspeed. Alleluija!!! These straps in my fightin' chair are starting to chaff a bit. Look at some of the replies, and ask yourself who has the chip. I am enjoying civvy flying, but don't let's pretend it is an any way as demending as military flying, because it just ain't so. In many ways it is better, but I have been disappointed to discover the bitterness that seems to pervade the civvy world, when it comes to dealing with ex-military personnel. I put my comments here to make a point, or rather to help dispel one. Look at the answers. I will do what I can to enable a change in attitude, and we'll see what happens. ( We have 9 S-76's and I'm based on the U.S. Pacific coast (American parents)). Some ex crabs may figure that one out.

'Lookout and fly accurately sir?'

DB

Civilian or military, it makes no odds to me its your personality that bugs.
You can try and justify your comments by saying it was all a wind up but there's an underlying arrogance in your comments.
At least have the courtesy to bum about yourself on another thread and not waste everyones time here.

Plank or rotary, many pilots leave the North Sea life to go fixed wing,and I must say I haven't heard of anyone coming back into the helicopter world.
My guess is that the monthly injection of serious £££ relieves any boredom that may set in!!

I am also dual rated, and spent 20+ years in law enforcement flying both. For the past ten years (since retiring from public service), I have also flown both, but have settled into flying Learjets based in S. Europe. I miss the helos, but certainly do not consider the f/w flying I am doing boring. Each flight is a new adventure, with varying destinations all over Europe and the Middle East. Flying corporate jets in the U.S. is also a lot of fun. It is apples and oranges. As far as $$, for the most part, yes, there is more money flying f/w than in helos. There are exceptions, as some corporate helo positions pay quite well, and there are corporate positions where you may fly both. See my posting regarding Evergreen Alaska, for an example of where being dual rated can pay dividends.

Cheers, Check 6

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Kick the tires, light the fires, first off is lead, brief on guard.

[This message has been edited by Check 6 (edited 15 October 2000).]

Clear to land

Silly question...........but what do you WANT to do?

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Proper Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance........Do it right, seek advice!

Having around 7500 hours, 75% of it rotary, in a spread of civi and military flying, I made the move to get out of flying totally around ten years ago. I finally came to the conclusion that long term rotary flying 'does your head in'.

Having safely established myself in a new career, though, I do miss flying, from time to time. I therefore make a point of flying planks with a nearby club for a few hours every month. Interestingly, though, I have absolutely no desire to fly rotary again.

I think that, for a good long term money earning job leading up to retirement, fixed wing has a lot going for it.

My opinion...

Who cares what machine you got it's what you do with it that counts.

Do it well - either way!

Jet driver needs heli advice
 

Rotorheads, I must admit to being somewhat red-faced about asking this as most of us have probably become a touch hard nosed and cynical in our old age (myself included). Boyish enthusiasm does seem a trifle uncool.

Anyway, here goes. 8000 hour airline training Captain, late thirties, wants to swim against the tide and go heli flying for a living. (Ducks for cover and looks on as hard-bitten rotary drivers clutch stomachs and roll around carpet to sound of much laughter).

Why? Life's too short not to have new challenges and I just love these machines. I've only 50 hours experience in a Bell-47, but it has to be the most fulfilling and fun flying I've ever done.

So, my question then, if I arm myself with a shiny new CPL(H), does my 8000 hours fixed wing and training experience count for anything with potential employers? I guess I'm specifically thinking B-206 or similar type, charters etc.

I hope I haven't opened a can of worms with regard to taking peoples' jobs, etc, as I realise things are not easy in the rotary world at present. Have they ever been? I'd just like to think that one little fishy swimming in the opposite direction to all the others wouldn't create too many waves.

In a nutshell then, armed with a CPL(H) and extensive overall flying experience, what chance of say part-time charter work as an example?

Feeling like a really embarrassed wanabee now, but I would seriously value any comments, suggestions or advice. :)

I can't give you the industry drum, but I've changed spots leopard style in the flying game several times, and am now doing it again.

Your past experience must count for something - CRM, general situational awareness, and probably philosophy towards flying - ie, having a good idea how far to push a situation and being willing to make an abort decision, would have to give you an accelerated rise to competence.

In analogous situations, I have found it to be something of an emotional rollercoaster - you know you can fly and operate, but you lose (for a time) the automatic hands and feet, and knowing where to look, skills that you had on your previous type, so your confidence can take a knock.

Funny as it sounds, as a first-time learner, you don't know what you don't know, so it's probably easier in that way than if you're transitioning from another form of flying.

If you're fairly well sorted out financially, I think it can only be a good thing to follow your hankering - as they say on the Lotto, if you don't have a go, you'll never know!

Thanks, Arm out the Window, I appreciate your reply. Interesting point you raise about the temporary difficulties of transitioning to a new type of flying.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Anyone got a UK perspective on my initial post? :)

Think they are all too busy studying for their ATPL(A) exams!

But if you are serious about changing to rotary, then your previous flying experience will obviously be a big advantage. You will find the training easier and I believe that it is a good time to swim against the tide as far as employment prospects are concerned. If you are aware of the inferior financial rewards after your investment and are still keen - go for it.

Hi Heli Vision - I know what you are feeling used to fly helis (4000 hrs) then went fixed wing flew for the airlines (Dan Air then BA) all on the 737 now fly a Private BBJ. The lure of helicopters is always there, to such an extent I am in the process of buying a Bell 47wreck and restoring it. If you have any questions send me an email Ill give you some grass roots suggestions!

night rating: 10 hours total, but if u'v got one, five in heli.
instriment would be similar sort of thing.
only need 40 or 50 hours for comercial(H) from cpl(A)
would benifit heaps i'd recon! ;)

Thanks for your interest guys.

Out of Balance - they're probably all studying for their ATPL(A) - nice one.

Bobby Johnson - glad I'm not the only one - good luck with the Bell.

Another question then. Am I right in thinking that many companies have a minimum hours requirement which would be well beyond the number I'd have with my entry level CPL(H), due to insurance requirements? Or, would my fixed wing time count for this insurance requirement?

The bottom line is, could I realistically expect employment (say in the charter field) equiped only with the minimum rotary hours I'd need to convert to a CPL(H), from my ATPL(A)?

My wife's understanding, but there is a limit!
:eek:

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

I have an obscure vision of you being a bit of a Salmon! That's not intended as an insult, just a suggestion that most of the fish are fighting like mad to get upstream!

I've been flying helo's for fifteen years in a variety of roles and can honestly say I would not swap a day of it (Well perhaps a couple of IR renewals!). However last year decided to try for fixed wing and am now looking for the right job opportunity.

Even if it does not work out I will be happy in the rotary world but will not be sitting here in ten years time wishing I had had the bottle to try.

So my advice, for what it is worth, is, if you fancy it, go for it!

There are a fair variety of jobs out there at the moment, and with your background I would have thought you would be snapped up.

It may be worth a few enquiries direct to potential employers to test the water; they should give you a reasonably honest assessment of your potential.

Be warned though, if you give up the day job entirely and rely for your livelihood on the charter level of the rotary world you will face a great deal more ****ing about than in the airline world; I don't need to warn you about the income expectations. It can, however, be genuinely interesting and varied stuff. Feel free to email me if you want to talk in depth.

If you're really interested, get it from the horse's mouth-IF you want to fly air taxi ask an air taxi operator. EMS, offshore, whatever.
Most of the chief pilots I know are right guys and straight up- especially stellar individual @rmhllc.com (Rocky Mountain Helicopters, USA EMS operator), although the pay there is subpar.

Addendum- we're (I'm with a large EMS operator) currently beating the bushes for a line pilot. HQ forwards us a stack (8) of resumes and leads from inquiries after positions-including a pilot who was upfront that he'd lost his medical...???

NO, NO, NO! There's no shortage of pilots!

Next, I guess we'll be making appointments for the recently deceased to interview for this position-they're not pushy about pay and stuff.

I used to drive Bell 206's. Great aircraft, but, at least for Americans, the helicopter job market seldom pays much. That's why I finally made the jump into fixed wing.

IMHO, airplane flying does not really translate into copter skills (instruments notwithstanding), so some (maybe all) employers only look at rotary time.

You might want to ease into rotary if you're really determined to do it; I've known of airline pilots getting part time copter jobs. Personally, I like the rotary realm better in terms of the people and the flying, but it's not a financially viable way to earn a living.

Im shaking my bottle of Bombay Saphire after reading this thread............Am I OK?? Is it a person who wears a suit, sits in a nice aircraft and eats real food, gets a big paycheck and now wants to work as a Helo driver??
Somebody take him to a shrink......
If that does not work, best thing he can do to prepare is sell all his worldly possessions, buy a mobile home in Lowsyana, get a really used peek up truck, a coon dog and a barefoot Bimbo. Try that for a week on no money. If that works or you come home to Bubba doin the Bimbo and you like it, then your in business.
The rest of the guys will tell you the serious stuff, like hour requirements etc.

A Post Script to this is, never, never ask a Helicopter Driver for Serious Advice.

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: B Sousa ]

Guys, many thanks for the info, it's much appreciated - please keep it coming.

B Sousa, I'm still laughing, although the bloke sitting behind me here taking notes doesn't seem that amused. Can't say it's as hot as the deep south here, but my feet sure do smell swampy, I've got baby sick all over my shoulder, and the cat's just thrown up on my keyboard. The twelve year old Nissan needs a service, and I'm sure the plumber doesn't need my missus to show him where the u-bend is again......Now where's that varmit of a dog...Rebel, ya'all come here, y'here...where's my gun...we're gonna git ourselves some no good, puke happy cat, y'here....

.....cue the duelling banjoes... ;)

Please keep the advice coming! :)

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]

Duelng banjoes is a helicopter with a two pilot requirement. You can tell the Pilots as their eyes are real close together and they usually have webbing in a few toes or fingers. Comes from the family tree with few branches. Like, "Ifin ya get deevorced will your ex-wife still be yer sister."
"You will know your a Helicopter Pilot when you admonish your 12 year old daughter for smokin at the dinner table ........in front of her kid."
8000 hours of jet time you should be able to get a good Fixed Wing job, you certainly wont get a minimal paying helicopter job with less than 1500 hours Helicopter and most of that will have to be turbine. Folks may tell you that your fixed wing stuff will help, but ask those people for a job.
I only joke about this because its a tough world out there, and fixed wingers for the most part make more money than helo drivers.
Good Luck and if you want to get rich, bring all your money here to Vegas. Put it on 17 Black at the Roulette table. You will have one good time for about three minutes......