Man hurt at Weston-super-Mare HeliDay
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Man hurt at Weston-super-Mare HeliDay
Reported in BBC News.
A man is critically ill after colliding with a lorry as he watched helicopters landing in Weston-super-Mare.
Police have appealed for witnesses to the accident which happened during Weston's Helidays event, in particular a woman and her child who were stood near the man before the collision.
The Health and Safety Executive is leading an investigation into the incident, helped by the Civil Aviation Authority and Air Accident Investigation Bureau.
It is thought the man might have been involved in the collision with a tipper-style lorry in Beach Road after being blown by the down-draft from a helicopter.
The man, who has not been named but is in his 60s, was taken to Weston General Hospital with life-threatening injuries.
Police have appealed for anyone who saw what happened to contact them.
The man was reported to have been standing outside the event's fenced-off area.
Police have appealed for witnesses to the accident which happened during Weston's Helidays event, in particular a woman and her child who were stood near the man before the collision.
The Health and Safety Executive is leading an investigation into the incident, helped by the Civil Aviation Authority and Air Accident Investigation Bureau.
It is thought the man might have been involved in the collision with a tipper-style lorry in Beach Road after being blown by the down-draft from a helicopter.
The man, who has not been named but is in his 60s, was taken to Weston General Hospital with life-threatening injuries.
Police have appealed for anyone who saw what happened to contact them.
The man was reported to have been standing outside the event's fenced-off area.
Last edited by Heliport; 29th Jul 2003 at 02:41.
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Very sorry for the poor chap, but I also pity the pilot of the nearest helicopter in the vicinity at the time.
If the man says a helicopter blew him into the lorry that'll be good enough for the CAA to prosecute the pilot.
If the man says a helicopter blew him into the lorry that'll be good enough for the CAA to prosecute the pilot.
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On a slightly different theme,
I landed in a field this weekend and a car driver who was driving past, turned his head right back to watch me, I was suddenly more concerned about watching him as he drove onto the wrong side of the road, fortunatly nothing was coming but if it had he would have hit it.
I suppose the CAA would have that down as my fault!
I landed in a field this weekend and a car driver who was driving past, turned his head right back to watch me, I was suddenly more concerned about watching him as he drove onto the wrong side of the road, fortunatly nothing was coming but if it had he would have hit it.
I suppose the CAA would have that down as my fault!
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Autorotate :
Other reports I've seen indicate the man was on foot, near the fence around the area - which is on the seafront at Weston super Mare - and was blown away by downwash. If close enough a 206 will do that.
Other reports I've seen indicate the man was on foot, near the fence around the area - which is on the seafront at Weston super Mare - and was blown away by downwash. If close enough a 206 will do that.
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I was one of the helpers in '94. Experience shows that the downwash from the military stuff is in a different class. A 206 would never have got close enough to blow anyone over.
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old heliman
If that's right, the Mil pilot is lucky the CAA won't be dealing with it.
Remember this classic "20 feet or 6 inches?" where an old lady said she was lifted up and blown 20 feet through the air - by the downdraft of a Twin Squirrel - and the CAA accepted it.
If that's right, the Mil pilot is lucky the CAA won't be dealing with it.
Remember this classic "20 feet or 6 inches?" where an old lady said she was lifted up and blown 20 feet through the air - by the downdraft of a Twin Squirrel - and the CAA accepted it.
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Local News(Taunton Times)
"Organisers of a helicopter air show in North Somerset vowed yesterday to carry out their own investigation after a spectator was blown into the path of a lorry. Last night, the man, said to be in his 70s and from Weston-super-Mare, was still fighting for his life in hospital.
Eyewitnesses reported seeing the man being blown away from the perimeter fence he was holding on to, as he watched a helicopter land just metres away, and into the path of a Volvo lorry.
But last night it was still not known whether this was due to the downdraught of the helicopter or a strong gust of wind from the sea. The man was hit by a tipper lorry when he was blown off the pavement in Beach Road, Weston-super-Mare.
Helidays director Captain Elfan Ap Rees said: "We will be carrying out our own investigation. There appears to be a lot of conflicting evidence as to what caused him to fall into the road. And we cannot comment much further until we know exactly what happened.
"But whatever did actually happened we think the high winds were a factor."
Captain Ap Rees said the wind had been gusting at more than 30 knots on Friday afternoon when the accident happened.
After the accident, event organisers closed the pavement."
Eyewitnesses reported seeing the man being blown away from the perimeter fence he was holding on to, as he watched a helicopter land just metres away, and into the path of a Volvo lorry.
But last night it was still not known whether this was due to the downdraught of the helicopter or a strong gust of wind from the sea. The man was hit by a tipper lorry when he was blown off the pavement in Beach Road, Weston-super-Mare.
Helidays director Captain Elfan Ap Rees said: "We will be carrying out our own investigation. There appears to be a lot of conflicting evidence as to what caused him to fall into the road. And we cannot comment much further until we know exactly what happened.
"But whatever did actually happened we think the high winds were a factor."
Captain Ap Rees said the wind had been gusting at more than 30 knots on Friday afternoon when the accident happened.
After the accident, event organisers closed the pavement."
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It is quite possible that the Health and Safety Executive will become involved and find some organiser guilty of not carrying out a full risk assessment on the effects of wind and downwash on 60-70 year old men walking on pavements. Obviously a relevant sign displayed warning of the dangers from nature combined with helicopter hovering should have been sited along with the dangers of frightened seagulls crapping on spectators.
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Heliport,
I gather it was an Italian military 212 that was involved. If HSE are involved then I would personally be concerned as unlike CAA (despite what some might think) there is no concept of open and honest reports with no-blame like we can have with MORs. Their first thoughts are"who is at fault, who can we prosecute and for what?" It is after all HSE that are prosecuting Railtrack for corporate manslughter.
I don't think I want to comment on the deckchair as I know some of those involved!! Other than to say it was the jury that believed them
I gather it was an Italian military 212 that was involved. If HSE are involved then I would personally be concerned as unlike CAA (despite what some might think) there is no concept of open and honest reports with no-blame like we can have with MORs. Their first thoughts are"who is at fault, who can we prosecute and for what?" It is after all HSE that are prosecuting Railtrack for corporate manslughter.
I don't think I want to comment on the deckchair as I know some of those involved!! Other than to say it was the jury that believed them
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Erm ,
I know this might sound a bit stupid, but what about the lorry driver. Surely he is the person that ran the man over NOT the helicopter. As I understand it you are required by our laws to drive with due care and attention, but I bet the lorry driver will be a witness to say the helicopter blew the man into the path of his vehicle.
Sadly there is a man in hospital through no fault of his own, but he could just have easily fallen and had the same consequence.
I know this might sound a bit stupid, but what about the lorry driver. Surely he is the person that ran the man over NOT the helicopter. As I understand it you are required by our laws to drive with due care and attention, but I bet the lorry driver will be a witness to say the helicopter blew the man into the path of his vehicle.
Sadly there is a man in hospital through no fault of his own, but he could just have easily fallen and had the same consequence.
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Hover -
That's being a bit simplistic. However the man in question ended up on the road, if he ended up in the side of the lorry then there's nothing the driver could have done. Same if he ended up mere feet in front of the lorry.
Not saying it's impossible the lorry driver isn't at fault here, but to assume that he is in the absence of other evidence is fallacy.
That's being a bit simplistic. However the man in question ended up on the road, if he ended up in the side of the lorry then there's nothing the driver could have done. Same if he ended up mere feet in front of the lorry.
Not saying it's impossible the lorry driver isn't at fault here, but to assume that he is in the absence of other evidence is fallacy.
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old heliman says:
Whilst the MOR system is excellent, just in case you find yourself being investigated by the CAA, be warned you'll be interviewed under caution by a CAA investigator. They're always ex- policemen so know what they're doing!
'Under Caution' means anything you say to him is recorded and can be used to prosecute you - and almost certainly will be if the CAA think they've got enough evidence. They may lose the case but only after it's cost you a lot in time, money and worry.
old heliman
Read the '20 feet or 6 inches' thread and you'll see your claim about the jury believing the 20 feet story is incorrect.
" .......... unlike CAA (despite what some might think) there is no concept of open and honest reports with no-blame like we can have with MORs. Their first thoughts are"who is at fault, who can we prosecute and for what?"
'Under Caution' means anything you say to him is recorded and can be used to prosecute you - and almost certainly will be if the CAA think they've got enough evidence. They may lose the case but only after it's cost you a lot in time, money and worry.
old heliman
Read the '20 feet or 6 inches' thread and you'll see your claim about the jury believing the 20 feet story is incorrect.
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I flew in to Western on the Saturday and spoke to both the CAA rep and the HSE rep.
The aircraft involved was an Apache. The Police have some Video footage from security cameras but apparently the quality is poor.
On the Friday, winds of 27kts or more were coming off the sea. As a result most aircraft flew over the beach area from the South, then near the main road to turn into wind to land.
The pedestrian was watching the incoming Apache and was either “Blown” into the Trucks path, or “Fell” (Akin to the Penguin phenomenon).
The CAA rep at Weston incidentally was the same chap who investigated the Twin Squirrel incident.
“He was guilty. He didn’t do a recce of the Lawn area of the Hotel. I flew a Twin Squirrel in and it was fine. Definite pilot error”!
His words not mine.
There was talk of the event being closed after the incident, but fortunately the organisers were able to convince the HSE and Police (And the CAA) otherwise.
H.L !
The aircraft involved was an Apache. The Police have some Video footage from security cameras but apparently the quality is poor.
On the Friday, winds of 27kts or more were coming off the sea. As a result most aircraft flew over the beach area from the South, then near the main road to turn into wind to land.
The pedestrian was watching the incoming Apache and was either “Blown” into the Trucks path, or “Fell” (Akin to the Penguin phenomenon).
The CAA rep at Weston incidentally was the same chap who investigated the Twin Squirrel incident.
“He was guilty. He didn’t do a recce of the Lawn area of the Hotel. I flew a Twin Squirrel in and it was fine. Definite pilot error”!
His words not mine.
There was talk of the event being closed after the incident, but fortunately the organisers were able to convince the HSE and Police (And the CAA) otherwise.
H.L !
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Happy Landing
The point wasn't whether the pilot in the hotel case failed to carry out a sufficient recce. He admitted that. The only points I was making were the CAA's barrister said in court that someone was blown 20 feet through the air by a Twin Squirrel (read the link thread) and, secondly, that Old Heliman was confusing 'no blame' MORs designed to improve air safety / learn from mistakes with CAA investigations which are designed to see if there's enough evidence to prosecute the pilot. The latter is certainly not a 'no blame' procedure.
We have everyone from beginners to old hands on this forum. My only concern was that less experiened pilots shouldn't be misled by what Old Heliman said.
Heliport
The point wasn't whether the pilot in the hotel case failed to carry out a sufficient recce. He admitted that. The only points I was making were the CAA's barrister said in court that someone was blown 20 feet through the air by a Twin Squirrel
(read the link thread) and, secondly, that Old Heliman was confusing 'no blame' MORs designed to improve air safety / learn from mistakes with CAA investigations which are designed to see if there's enough evidence to prosecute the pilot. The latter is certainly not a 'no blame' procedure.We have everyone from beginners to old hands on this forum. My only concern was that less experiened pilots shouldn't be misled by what Old Heliman said.
Heliport
Last edited by Heliport; 31st Jul 2003 at 07:27.
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No Prob Heliport, I think you have misunderstood where I was coming from.....
I was trying to indicate that the CAA chap in attendance was a little quick to apportion blame, or certainly was indicating or inferring the similarities between the two incidents without substantial evidence, the day after the incident at Weston and in the presence of a number of pilots.
I thought the statement was damming of the unfortunate Apache pilot.
My only wish is that if ever I am involved in such an incident, I am given my rights as Innocent until proven Guilty
I was trying to indicate that the CAA chap in attendance was a little quick to apportion blame, or certainly was indicating or inferring the similarities between the two incidents without substantial evidence, the day after the incident at Weston and in the presence of a number of pilots.
I thought the statement was damming of the unfortunate Apache pilot.
My only wish is that if ever I am involved in such an incident, I am given my rights as Innocent until proven Guilty
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Sorry, I did misunderstand.
I haven't been investigated (difficult to type with crossed fingers!) but, if what we read here on the forum is anything to go by, the CAA chap being quick to blame the pilot appears to be fairly typical.
You're right, it should be 'innocent until proved guilty' but attitudes like his don't exactly fill you with confidence.
I haven't been investigated (difficult to type with crossed fingers!) but, if what we read here on the forum is anything to go by, the CAA chap being quick to blame the pilot appears to be fairly typical.
You're right, it should be 'innocent until proved guilty' but attitudes like his don't exactly fill you with confidence.