ADF Receivers....Gone the way of the dinosuaurs???
Thread Starter
ADF Receivers....Gone the way of the dinosuaurs???
Of late, my engineering staff have been trying to convince me that ADF receivers are a thing of the past.....based upon the lack of technical support and spare parts for the ones we have installed on our two aircraft. They suggest when we refit the aircraft with "modern" panels and radio's we should omit installing any ADF receiver.
What say ye?
What say ye?
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Age: 75
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GPS has my vote, if I were spending my money. But the full published ILS still needs an adf from time to time, and so do small fields in far away places.
I would trust a good GPS over an ADF, anytime, if legalisms are not the issue.
I would trust a good GPS over an ADF, anytime, if legalisms are not the issue.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dansaff
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may know this but the worlds most potent attack helicopter still comes with an ADF as standard. It's always been consistent in pointing the way to the bar and for picking up the sports channel on a saturday afternoon for the football, sad day if they were to be thought of as redundant.
Thread Starter
If the two ILS approaches in our area have LOM's, can we use the GPS to mark them if on an IFR flight in IMC conditions. (In reality yes....but legally???) Of course , that assumes our navdata cards are current.....and all that.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, you can use the GPS legally, according to Jeppesen and the AIM, to fix VOR, NDB, intersections, or whatever else. In fact, using the GPS, the VOR or NDB doesn't even have to be working - the authorization specifically says the facility may be inoperative, and the GPS can still be used to fix it.
But if they take out the ADF, how will you be able to listen to Paul Harvey and Rush Limbaugh? Our pilots would cry and whine forever if the ADF were removed, and it's the first thing they'll write up in the book as inop.
I seldom if ever use the ADF, and LOM's are being decommissioned at a growing pace. Soon there will be few, if any, LOM's in existence in the U.S., and any excuse for use of ADF will be gone. My main complaint is that I still have to demonstrate testing the ADF during checkrides, even though it won't be used for anything during the ride, & the only thing it's used for on the line is listening to commercial broadcasts with the needle parked. I don't have the time or inclination for that, so I'd prefer it to be gone.
But if they take out the ADF, how will you be able to listen to Paul Harvey and Rush Limbaugh? Our pilots would cry and whine forever if the ADF were removed, and it's the first thing they'll write up in the book as inop.
I seldom if ever use the ADF, and LOM's are being decommissioned at a growing pace. Soon there will be few, if any, LOM's in existence in the U.S., and any excuse for use of ADF will be gone. My main complaint is that I still have to demonstrate testing the ADF during checkrides, even though it won't be used for anything during the ride, & the only thing it's used for on the line is listening to commercial broadcasts with the needle parked. I don't have the time or inclination for that, so I'd prefer it to be gone.
Thread Starter
Errrr....Nick....I am getting old but I do not have to wear diapers yet.....sentient I ain't yet!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question...
Question: When the LCD PFD fails (one or both depending on the aircraft), what do you back it up with? Answer: A backup artifical horizon, airspeed indicator, and heading indicator.
Question: When the GPS unit (or screen) fails, what do you back it up with, when you're using it for primary navigation in IMC conditions? Answer: It seems to me you'd back it up with VOR, DME, and ADF (along with radar directed ATC when it's available).
Why lose the ADF when it might be needed? Comments are welcome.
Question: When the GPS unit (or screen) fails, what do you back it up with, when you're using it for primary navigation in IMC conditions? Answer: It seems to me you'd back it up with VOR, DME, and ADF (along with radar directed ATC when it's available).
Why lose the ADF when it might be needed? Comments are welcome.
Thread Starter
Prior to GPS.....as my memory serves me....the radio configuration ususally consisted of dual coms, navs, single adf, single transponder. If we use the same concept would we not have dual GPS such as the more serious EMS operators do?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No No No No No.................
Why remove a nav aid?.. in a Supa dupa puma if both alts fail you're left with an ADI and an ADF. Some places outside of the mainland A/D have little option as radio 5 live is bairly receivable from anywhere else.....
GPS is UNreliable.....(regardless whether ADF's point at you're nearest TS...) as it has a seemingly infallibility about it...
GPS is UNreliable.....(regardless whether ADF's point at you're nearest TS...) as it has a seemingly infallibility about it...
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASless, I hope you're still sentient. You don't write as if you're senile. 
FS, we still have to have 2 VOR's to operate offshore. They're useless out there, but they have to be operational. If the GPS fails, we can just fly north until the VOR's start working. With the ADF, we could home to New Orleans, I guess.
FS, we still have to have 2 VOR's to operate offshore. They're useless out there, but they have to be operational. If the GPS fails, we can just fly north until the VOR's start working. With the ADF, we could home to New Orleans, I guess.
Always grin when the old chestnut of GPS inaccuracy/reliability raises it head.......The ADF is infamous in it's inaccuracy, even to the extent of being a prime question in the exams. The ADF relies on one transmitter (with no back-up), whilst we are all aware of the numerous sources for the GPS.
After spealing out the pneumonic for all the errors, had to scratch my head and wonder why we still used the thing, procedurally.
When will people latch on to the fact that, apart from the pilot, the ADF is the most inaccurate and unreliable direction aid in the aircraft?
It is also just as easily 'jammed' as the weaker sat signals.
Sounds to me that anyone who still extolls the virtues of the ADF (apart from getting the cricket scores) also hails from the same cadre of drivers who insist on the push-pull method of steering a car!! (OK, so I get the Telegraph, doesn't make me a bad person)
After spealing out the pneumonic for all the errors, had to scratch my head and wonder why we still used the thing, procedurally.
When will people latch on to the fact that, apart from the pilot, the ADF is the most inaccurate and unreliable direction aid in the aircraft?
It is also just as easily 'jammed' as the weaker sat signals.
Sounds to me that anyone who still extolls the virtues of the ADF (apart from getting the cricket scores) also hails from the same cadre of drivers who insist on the push-pull method of steering a car!! (OK, so I get the Telegraph, doesn't make me a bad person)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: home and abroad
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Offshore on the North Sea, most of the platforms have an NDB to back up our Airborne Radar Approaches. If the GPS packs up. that is the only way to identify our destination.
Furthermore, I find the ADF very useful in keeping me awake during flight, but also to alert me to possible lightning via the change in static. At least that's my excuse..
So we won't be removing them just yet, I hope..
Furthermore, I find the ADF very useful in keeping me awake during flight, but also to alert me to possible lightning via the change in static. At least that's my excuse..
So we won't be removing them just yet, I hope..
Join Date: May 2002
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aaah
I admit that the ADF has a penchant for The Big Clouds, HOWEVER, why remove a Nav-aid. Especially when CB's are not the only baddie, satellites are extremely sensitive to solar storms, although its highly improbable that a single Big Daddy would remove all 24 or more.
On a more realistic note, not only does the RAIM on the GPS fail fairly often, it sometimes doesn't indicate that it has. If you've ever gone into that autopilot rate one turn whilst both of you look at each other with the infamous, what the F!?k was that!, and realised you're 2 miles of course in zero viz in a very busy North sea, the VOR's no use to pilot nor beast, sooo.... in a TS free moment you check you're ADF radial and take the appropriate action. Not only can it save your arse, it can increase your airbound pleasure by being able to announce to your Scottish pax that England have won the odd sporting event. Why remove such glorious diversity.
On a more realistic note, not only does the RAIM on the GPS fail fairly often, it sometimes doesn't indicate that it has. If you've ever gone into that autopilot rate one turn whilst both of you look at each other with the infamous, what the F!?k was that!, and realised you're 2 miles of course in zero viz in a very busy North sea, the VOR's no use to pilot nor beast, sooo.... in a TS free moment you check you're ADF radial and take the appropriate action. Not only can it save your arse, it can increase your airbound pleasure by being able to announce to your Scottish pax that England have won the odd sporting event. Why remove such glorious diversity.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
So, if your IFR approved GPS does something to you that you didn't think it should, like not tell you it's lost when it's lost, what do you do?
Don't you think you should tell someone like the manufacturer, the civil authority, possibly the air traffic control people so that these things can get monitored, and possibly someone might fix something if enough of it goes bad?
Service Difficulty Reports - send 'em in. Enough people send these things in, it will get noticed.
Don't you think you should tell someone like the manufacturer, the civil authority, possibly the air traffic control people so that these things can get monitored, and possibly someone might fix something if enough of it goes bad?
Service Difficulty Reports - send 'em in. Enough people send these things in, it will get noticed.
Radials or Bearings on ADF?
Now I have to use my expertise here as it seems obvious that you are all confused????
NDB/ADF gives BEARINGS, whilst VOR's give RADIALS, or did I loose something through my training???
Now this was meant humorous, but I'll take my beatings in stride
Hope to be with you out there in the dark foggy norwegian sector soon!!
NDB/ADF gives BEARINGS, whilst VOR's give RADIALS, or did I loose something through my training???
Now this was meant humorous, but I'll take my beatings in stride
Hope to be with you out there in the dark foggy norwegian sector soon!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Winnie, you're correct. I think you could technically fly a reasonably good radial with an ADF by manuvering to maintain a steady bearing, but it wouldn't be as accurate as a VOR radial.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Of course, here in old blighty we aren't allowed to use this new-fangled GPS as a primary navaid, can't be right.....
ADFs are much better, don't you know, her-grumphhh, mutter mutter, CAA mutter....bring back Decca....and the sextant....
ADFs are much better, don't you know, her-grumphhh, mutter mutter, CAA mutter....bring back Decca....and the sextant....