TR - Lack of cooperation, thereof.
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TR - Lack of cooperation, thereof.
Having had a read of the goings on at North Weald and the subsequent minor diversion to the subject of Dennis Kenyon's TR failure experiences, I as a low time PP type thought it seemed sensible to ask you high time/ much experienced chaps a bit of a question.
What could/should I do should I experience TR failure?
The thought that comes to mind is to enter autorotation and aim to continue to a shallow run on landing. Obviously the normal flare and lever lift would go out the window as I'd assume lifting the lever used would inrease the torque reaction and induce unwelcome lateral rotation?
Am I figuring wrong here? Please correct me here... I really don't fancy 'Too late to ask now' as an epitaph.
HandyAndy
Lid on head
What could/should I do should I experience TR failure?
The thought that comes to mind is to enter autorotation and aim to continue to a shallow run on landing. Obviously the normal flare and lever lift would go out the window as I'd assume lifting the lever used would inrease the torque reaction and induce unwelcome lateral rotation?
Am I figuring wrong here? Please correct me here... I really don't fancy 'Too late to ask now' as an epitaph.
HandyAndy
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Andy - the only way to cover this is to go out with an instructor and practice it.
At my last rotary FI renewal we were asked how many of us has experienced a) engine failure and b) tail rotor problems. Two (out of eleven) had suffered engine failure, while four had experienced tail rotor problems. So it's probably rather more common than engine failure, for which we practice a lot.
At my last rotary FI renewal we were asked how many of us has experienced a) engine failure and b) tail rotor problems. Two (out of eleven) had suffered engine failure, while four had experienced tail rotor problems. So it's probably rather more common than engine failure, for which we practice a lot.
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How do you practice for a TR failure
Apart from the instructor "locking" the peddles, it seems almost impossible to practice it.
The other factors that need to be addressed are;
In the hover,
In straight and level cruise
and transition?
Simon
The other factors that need to be addressed are;
In the hover,
In straight and level cruise
and transition?
Simon
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Andy,
I gather from your profile that you fly R22s; well, tail rotor failure is covered in the emergencies section of the R22 handbook. Briefly you enter autorotation, and before flaring, roll the throttle into the detent. Then you flare and raise the lever as usual - throttle in detent, so no engine, so no torque reaction. With TR failure in the hover you close the throttle into the detent, then raise the lever. If it happens below 500 ft, eg in the transition, you keep flying until you're above 500 ft; if above 60 kts, you should be able to maintain controlled forward flight.
At least, that's the theory, I'm not speaking from experience.
I gather from your profile that you fly R22s; well, tail rotor failure is covered in the emergencies section of the R22 handbook. Briefly you enter autorotation, and before flaring, roll the throttle into the detent. Then you flare and raise the lever as usual - throttle in detent, so no engine, so no torque reaction. With TR failure in the hover you close the throttle into the detent, then raise the lever. If it happens below 500 ft, eg in the transition, you keep flying until you're above 500 ft; if above 60 kts, you should be able to maintain controlled forward flight.
At least, that's the theory, I'm not speaking from experience.
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Simon/Andy,
It is definitely possible to practise and well worth it. I just did it on my last LPC, an autorotation with feet on the floor. It felt very unnatural, but proved equally as effective. In the heat of sensory overload, of course, I forgot exactly what we did, but Whirly's post brings it flooding back!
Find an instructor, have a go!
DBChopper
It is definitely possible to practise and well worth it. I just did it on my last LPC, an autorotation with feet on the floor. It felt very unnatural, but proved equally as effective. In the heat of sensory overload, of course, I forgot exactly what we did, but Whirly's post brings it flooding back!
Find an instructor, have a go!
DBChopper
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It would be wrong to try to give specific tuition on a forum such as this. Each aircraft type has it's own characteristics so speak to someone who knows your type very well. If their answer is to carry out an autorotative landing in every instance, go somewhere else for advice.
Generally speaking though, a tail rotor drive shaft failure on most conventional types requires an autorotation and the engine to be shut off before landing to kill the torque reaction.
A stuck tail rotor control system requires a different technique that can hopefully result in a controlled running landing or even a "close to hover" landing depending on the available tail rotor thrust.
This is something that every rotary pilot needs to have straight in his mind.
Generally speaking though, a tail rotor drive shaft failure on most conventional types requires an autorotation and the engine to be shut off before landing to kill the torque reaction.
A stuck tail rotor control system requires a different technique that can hopefully result in a controlled running landing or even a "close to hover" landing depending on the available tail rotor thrust.
This is something that every rotary pilot needs to have straight in his mind.
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You should clarify tail rotor failure. There are a myriad of failure modes, control (lack of or jammed), drive, blade failure, t/r departing the aircraft on it's own or with the gearbox as well.
I think you might find the EP's in the R22 manual are conjecture to satisfy a requirement. The Bell 205 manual (who knows where you will find one) does have extensive info after the many failures experienced in the SEA conflict.
The loss of the TR with the Gearbag is probably not survivable in AC without a decent offset in the MRH. Find the numbers and do the math on an R22 or B206. Probably lawn dart central.
If you think about it long enough you should come up with some answers and here should be the place to get them verified. Training will give you some idea but not the definitive answer. The result would possibly be better than no training at all, with luck.
With reference to the quoted Enstrom failures on another thread, the TR is that bad on this aircraft you probably wouldn't miss it. As for the Robinson's - Frank IS Mr Tail Rotor, shame he used one for a main rotor on his aircraft.
I think you might find the EP's in the R22 manual are conjecture to satisfy a requirement. The Bell 205 manual (who knows where you will find one) does have extensive info after the many failures experienced in the SEA conflict.
The loss of the TR with the Gearbag is probably not survivable in AC without a decent offset in the MRH. Find the numbers and do the math on an R22 or B206. Probably lawn dart central.
If you think about it long enough you should come up with some answers and here should be the place to get them verified. Training will give you some idea but not the definitive answer. The result would possibly be better than no training at all, with luck.
With reference to the quoted Enstrom failures on another thread, the TR is that bad on this aircraft you probably wouldn't miss it. As for the Robinson's - Frank IS Mr Tail Rotor, shame he used one for a main rotor on his aircraft.
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Thanks for the pointers so far guys and gal; most informative.
Perhaps what I should have mentioned in the original blurb was that whilst I have had a read through the EP's detailed in my trusty Robbo Drivers Guide, experience has taught me that what is written in such things tends to be the result of controlled testing.
What I was hoping to gain is a little more of the wisdom of the reality. As with most occurances it would seem that someone in here is bound to have either experienced this or knows someone who has and with a little luck the collective response along with a willing instructor next time I can afford it, should help me (and maybe others reading this) to handle such an occurance.
Perhaps what I should have mentioned in the original blurb was that whilst I have had a read through the EP's detailed in my trusty Robbo Drivers Guide, experience has taught me that what is written in such things tends to be the result of controlled testing.
What I was hoping to gain is a little more of the wisdom of the reality. As with most occurances it would seem that someone in here is bound to have either experienced this or knows someone who has and with a little luck the collective response along with a willing instructor next time I can afford it, should help me (and maybe others reading this) to handle such an occurance.
