Mirror exposes deadly helicopter peril! (Merged)
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I can vouch for Mark Ogden and the validity of his intended story, so relax and go ahead with your PM's if you wish. Mark worked for me as a journalist for many moons. He's also an ex-military pilot turned accident investigator and aviation photographer.
Oh dear!...But who will vouch for me?
The only thing to add is: be aware this will be a helicopter mag story, so no matter how good/accurate it may be it is unlikely to reach Joe Public. The heli industry still needs to consider NOW how it will react to similar mass-media stories in the future.
Dan (trust me...I'm a journalist) Coughlan
Oh dear!...But who will vouch for me?
The only thing to add is: be aware this will be a helicopter mag story, so no matter how good/accurate it may be it is unlikely to reach Joe Public. The heli industry still needs to consider NOW how it will react to similar mass-media stories in the future.
Dan (trust me...I'm a journalist) Coughlan
AB. Sorry mate. Wires well and truly crossed. Had the pleasure of meeting 'your' Mark Ogden at Heli Asia about 3 years ago. He then came to visit my ex Sqn in the Uk and ran an excellent article for 'Defence Helciopter' (I think that's who ran the story). Anyway, he took loads of air-to-air shots and I had the pleasure of being the pilot of the target AS350BB helicopter and even made the front cover! (The guy I was referring to in my previous post was Mark Evans - sorry, my mistake!) J
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How about having a public awareness day somewhere in central london, Hyde Park (not sure if this is a big area or not where helos can be landed) where it is publicised to the general public, so they can come along and see what helicopters are all about. Include the Met Police, Fire dept, Virgin EMS, charter, ag operators, Air Harrods machines etc etc.
They do this in Los Angeles every few months and literally thousands of people turn up and it has really improved the way helicopters are looked upon. They get great attendance and its a perfect opportunity to educate people.
It wouldnt be that hard to arrange and if you got between 10 and 20 helos there, which given the numbers around London, would be great day out for mum and the kids. Have the Police put on a simulated display, as could the Hems Explorer.
Anyway just a thought. It has worked in other countries and couldnt see why it wouldnt work over there.
AB
They do this in Los Angeles every few months and literally thousands of people turn up and it has really improved the way helicopters are looked upon. They get great attendance and its a perfect opportunity to educate people.
It wouldnt be that hard to arrange and if you got between 10 and 20 helos there, which given the numbers around London, would be great day out for mum and the kids. Have the Police put on a simulated display, as could the Hems Explorer.
Anyway just a thought. It has worked in other countries and couldnt see why it wouldnt work over there.
AB
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A call to arms
Heliport
In the short term, and always assuming the resources are available, I suggest one industry body, probably BHAB, appoint a media-savvy individual to speak for commercial and private operators alike. In truth this body needs to be backed by the Helicopter Club of Great Britain and others with a vested interest in the London heli lanes.
I’d have that person prepare a one page briefing document for journalists and gather all the necessary email and fax numbers to which it would be sent in the event of another Daily Mirror-type story…standard PR stuff this. The recent spat should be ignored for the drivel it was, but any development it spawns needs to be addressed. Meanwhile the BHAB should be actively making contact with all relevant authorities (if it is not already) to ensure they know who they should be consulting, and where those folks can go for first-hand information on operational and commercial matters. Most important during these security-riddled times is then to stay in contact with them, not wait for them to call.
In the medium term I think more fly-ins need to be arranged similar to the excellent Heli-Days event held annually at Weston-Super-Mare. For those who don’t know, Heli-Days is staged alongside a public fair over a public holiday weekend. Crucially, this event allows Joe Public, Mrs Public and little Johnnie and Mary Public to see, touch and smell a helicopter up close. Experience shows that only when the public has direct contact with such remote assets and their crews do they begin to see them as relevant to their own lives.
Alongside more public fly-ins I’d also charge the BHAB with preparing a schools’ information pack complete with wall posters and other National Curriculum-coordinated teaching materials. The ‘Get-them-young’ lesson was learned long ago by the trucking industry. In the UK the Friends of Road Transport campaign has gone a long way to changing public-perception of heavy trucks. I’d get the various police authorities involved here too. They are always interested in an opportunity to get closer to the young, and they also share the need for public support of aviation.
Long term I’d encourage the BHAB (and by that I mean its members) to be more politically and commercially pro-active as a unit. I’d model the organisation on the Freight Transport Association and make it more media and government aware. I’d seek to cement links between aircraft operators and schools at the local level and then offer the CAA, the AAIB, NATS and all the other regulatory bodies the opportunity to get involved, to fund, sponsor or otherwise back such on-going initiatives so that they too may benefit. In this way, and possibly through an industry levy, I’d seek to keep the whole ball rolling financially.
All of this would require boundless personal energy from all involved, but not so much in the way of money, I feel. Handling the media and public perception takes experience and media understanding more than it costs cash. The end result would be a more valued industry wrapped in the protective blanket of public admiration. Even the Mirror wouldn’t pick a fight with that.
Hope no-one that reads this now thinks they’re granny and I’m trying to teach them how to suck eggs. I have been asked the question, so please consider this just me thinking out loud. My reply is, however, laced with experience from a parallel industry. I know there are many good people at the BHAB and elsewhere who would get behind such initiatives if they could see a way. Like I said at the start, all the above takes resources: people, time, money. Little will change long-term if these resources are not put in place, and that will take the will of members and non-members alike.
Heliport. A long answer to a short question I know, but I always saw the Mirror’s story as inevitable. The industry should have seen it coming and was caught unprepared. Preventing its repeat, especially in security-conscious times, is ultimately a long-term job. And prevention is always better than cure.
Dan Coughlan
In the short term, and always assuming the resources are available, I suggest one industry body, probably BHAB, appoint a media-savvy individual to speak for commercial and private operators alike. In truth this body needs to be backed by the Helicopter Club of Great Britain and others with a vested interest in the London heli lanes.
I’d have that person prepare a one page briefing document for journalists and gather all the necessary email and fax numbers to which it would be sent in the event of another Daily Mirror-type story…standard PR stuff this. The recent spat should be ignored for the drivel it was, but any development it spawns needs to be addressed. Meanwhile the BHAB should be actively making contact with all relevant authorities (if it is not already) to ensure they know who they should be consulting, and where those folks can go for first-hand information on operational and commercial matters. Most important during these security-riddled times is then to stay in contact with them, not wait for them to call.
In the medium term I think more fly-ins need to be arranged similar to the excellent Heli-Days event held annually at Weston-Super-Mare. For those who don’t know, Heli-Days is staged alongside a public fair over a public holiday weekend. Crucially, this event allows Joe Public, Mrs Public and little Johnnie and Mary Public to see, touch and smell a helicopter up close. Experience shows that only when the public has direct contact with such remote assets and their crews do they begin to see them as relevant to their own lives.
Alongside more public fly-ins I’d also charge the BHAB with preparing a schools’ information pack complete with wall posters and other National Curriculum-coordinated teaching materials. The ‘Get-them-young’ lesson was learned long ago by the trucking industry. In the UK the Friends of Road Transport campaign has gone a long way to changing public-perception of heavy trucks. I’d get the various police authorities involved here too. They are always interested in an opportunity to get closer to the young, and they also share the need for public support of aviation.
Long term I’d encourage the BHAB (and by that I mean its members) to be more politically and commercially pro-active as a unit. I’d model the organisation on the Freight Transport Association and make it more media and government aware. I’d seek to cement links between aircraft operators and schools at the local level and then offer the CAA, the AAIB, NATS and all the other regulatory bodies the opportunity to get involved, to fund, sponsor or otherwise back such on-going initiatives so that they too may benefit. In this way, and possibly through an industry levy, I’d seek to keep the whole ball rolling financially.
All of this would require boundless personal energy from all involved, but not so much in the way of money, I feel. Handling the media and public perception takes experience and media understanding more than it costs cash. The end result would be a more valued industry wrapped in the protective blanket of public admiration. Even the Mirror wouldn’t pick a fight with that.
Hope no-one that reads this now thinks they’re granny and I’m trying to teach them how to suck eggs. I have been asked the question, so please consider this just me thinking out loud. My reply is, however, laced with experience from a parallel industry. I know there are many good people at the BHAB and elsewhere who would get behind such initiatives if they could see a way. Like I said at the start, all the above takes resources: people, time, money. Little will change long-term if these resources are not put in place, and that will take the will of members and non-members alike.
Heliport. A long answer to a short question I know, but I always saw the Mirror’s story as inevitable. The industry should have seen it coming and was caught unprepared. Preventing its repeat, especially in security-conscious times, is ultimately a long-term job. And prevention is always better than cure.
Dan Coughlan
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Exclusive : Mirror operated Heliport in London
What about that for an alternative headline in another paper?
Why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that when he was around Robert Maxwell operated a private Heliport on the roof of Mirror Group Newspaper HQ (Holborn Circus?). If there was ever a reckless, ruthless madman with a Twin Squirrel at his disposal over London it was him! Aircraft was G-RMGN 1986 - 1992(ish).
Why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that when he was around Robert Maxwell operated a private Heliport on the roof of Mirror Group Newspaper HQ (Holborn Circus?). If there was ever a reckless, ruthless madman with a Twin Squirrel at his disposal over London it was him! Aircraft was G-RMGN 1986 - 1992(ish).
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MPR
I'll never forget walking out of Farringdon tube one morning and thinking, 'I can smell Avtur', and then hearing the Allisons winding up, and there, far above us all is Cap'n Bob taking to the skies.
Don't know who he had to bribe to manage that, and now I suppose we never will.
I'll never forget walking out of Farringdon tube one morning and thinking, 'I can smell Avtur', and then hearing the Allisons winding up, and there, far above us all is Cap'n Bob taking to the skies.
Don't know who he had to bribe to manage that, and now I suppose we never will.
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Ref: The Daily Mirror...22:53 UTC
(From the BBC news website)
Editor sacked over 'hoax' photos
The Mirror board said Morgan would be stepping down immediately
Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan has been sacked after the newspaper conceded photos of British soldiers abusing an Iraqi were fake....
...The newspaper released a statement saying: "The Daily Mirror published in good faith photographs which it absolutely believed were genuine images of British soldiers abusing an Iraqi prisoner.
"However there is now sufficient evidence to suggest that these pictures are fakes and that the Daily Mirror has been the subject of a calculated and malicious hoax.
"The Daily Mirror therefore apologises unreservedly for publishing the pictures and deeply regrets the reputational damage done to the QLR [the Queen's Lancashire Regiment] and the Army in Iraq.
"The paper will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation. "
.........................................
Yeah! I bet they will...
OK. I'm happy to be accused of being right after the fact, but those pictures, the Daily Mirror's 'Iraq abuse' photos, always struck me as being the most faked photos in the history of photo-journalism. As a journalist and photographer I, for one, feared from day one that those pics were bull****!...their timing was too damn convenient for a start, their focus was so obviously too sharp, the clothes were too clean and the wooden truck floor was too damn obviously not British Army issue, and given the size of the regiment, too easy to trace in any case.
For Christ's sake...!!!
Answer me this one question Piers: Just how many man-hours did you, as an editor, demand be applied to the verification of their authenticity? My estimate is it was 'same-day.'
Does anyone from your legal team care to deny my estimate?
Piers, from one journalist to another... you always were a slimy ****wit. You and the ilk of The Sun, and every other tabloid who has consistently sold their sole at the alter of tomorrow's sales figures, your company's profit, and therefore your own Christmas bonus, now deserve all you get. I only pity all the honest, hardworking journalists who have fought against all the crap, threats and lies management-led todies like yourself and all those other proprietors have wrought upon their futures and that of their families and their mortgages in order to make them do your bidding. Their bonus will undoubtendly be less than your 'Golden Get Lost,' I'm sure.
Call yourself an editor? You don't have the honour, the mettle, or the balls. Your a fcuking disgrace to journalism, and the exact reason people like me have to defend professions like ours all too often on websites such as Pprune...Boll0cks!!!
Rant over...and my apologies to those hereabouts who may be wondering what this is all about.
I hereafter refuse to defend the indefensible.
And in the aftermath of Nick Berg, and the reasons stated for his murder, what can I say
Dan
(From the BBC news website)
Editor sacked over 'hoax' photos
The Mirror board said Morgan would be stepping down immediately
Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan has been sacked after the newspaper conceded photos of British soldiers abusing an Iraqi were fake....
...The newspaper released a statement saying: "The Daily Mirror published in good faith photographs which it absolutely believed were genuine images of British soldiers abusing an Iraqi prisoner.
"However there is now sufficient evidence to suggest that these pictures are fakes and that the Daily Mirror has been the subject of a calculated and malicious hoax.
"The Daily Mirror therefore apologises unreservedly for publishing the pictures and deeply regrets the reputational damage done to the QLR [the Queen's Lancashire Regiment] and the Army in Iraq.
"The paper will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation. "
.........................................
Yeah! I bet they will...
OK. I'm happy to be accused of being right after the fact, but those pictures, the Daily Mirror's 'Iraq abuse' photos, always struck me as being the most faked photos in the history of photo-journalism. As a journalist and photographer I, for one, feared from day one that those pics were bull****!...their timing was too damn convenient for a start, their focus was so obviously too sharp, the clothes were too clean and the wooden truck floor was too damn obviously not British Army issue, and given the size of the regiment, too easy to trace in any case.
For Christ's sake...!!!
Answer me this one question Piers: Just how many man-hours did you, as an editor, demand be applied to the verification of their authenticity? My estimate is it was 'same-day.'
Does anyone from your legal team care to deny my estimate?
Piers, from one journalist to another... you always were a slimy ****wit. You and the ilk of The Sun, and every other tabloid who has consistently sold their sole at the alter of tomorrow's sales figures, your company's profit, and therefore your own Christmas bonus, now deserve all you get. I only pity all the honest, hardworking journalists who have fought against all the crap, threats and lies management-led todies like yourself and all those other proprietors have wrought upon their futures and that of their families and their mortgages in order to make them do your bidding. Their bonus will undoubtendly be less than your 'Golden Get Lost,' I'm sure.
Call yourself an editor? You don't have the honour, the mettle, or the balls. Your a fcuking disgrace to journalism, and the exact reason people like me have to defend professions like ours all too often on websites such as Pprune...Boll0cks!!!
Rant over...and my apologies to those hereabouts who may be wondering what this is all about.
I hereafter refuse to defend the indefensible.
And in the aftermath of Nick Berg, and the reasons stated for his murder, what can I say
Dan
Last edited by Dantruck; 14th May 2004 at 21:21.
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Has no one else noticed the change to procedures on H4, the heliroute that passes near the Houses of Parliament? You are no longer allowed to hold in that vicinity.
Can't think of any good (aviation) reason for this - I presume it may be some sort of response to the issue raised by the Mirror (not the photos)
I hope this is the extent of the response from the government, but I would not be sure
Can't think of any good (aviation) reason for this - I presume it may be some sort of response to the issue raised by the Mirror (not the photos)
I hope this is the extent of the response from the government, but I would not be sure
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What goes around comes around. Piers Morgan, the editor of the Daily Mirror has just been fired for publishing hoax photographs of British troops abusing Iraqi prisoners. He defended the indefensible right up to the time he got himself fired. Newspapers will print anything to sell newspapers. They don't care about the individual or what is reasonable or sensible.
Reporters will walk onto a private airfield from time to time and say they could have stolen a Cherokee and were not even challenged! Wow, what a revelation!
Regards,
Chopperpilot47
Reporters will walk onto a private airfield from time to time and say they could have stolen a Cherokee and were not even challenged! Wow, what a revelation!
Regards,
Chopperpilot47
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Dear all,
The simple act of not purchasing the "Daily Mirror" and persuading all who you know who may read such a rag to do like wise would have a very good effect!
Cheers Piers ( you plonker)
Vfr
The simple act of not purchasing the "Daily Mirror" and persuading all who you know who may read such a rag to do like wise would have a very good effect!
Cheers Piers ( you plonker)
Vfr
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Helicopter passenger security
Before i start this thread i think this topic was covered some time ago, but i would like to re cover this topic.
With an increase in aviation security mainly targeted at large airlines and international airports, what are your thoughts on increasing security for passengers traveling by helicopter, whether it's pleasure trips or corporate? Could helicopters be hijacked and used for terrorism? And if so what measures should we take when a passenger books a flight? Should passengers and bags be checked? Should we ask mandatory security questions?
Your thoughts please ladies and gentlemen.
With an increase in aviation security mainly targeted at large airlines and international airports, what are your thoughts on increasing security for passengers traveling by helicopter, whether it's pleasure trips or corporate? Could helicopters be hijacked and used for terrorism? And if so what measures should we take when a passenger books a flight? Should passengers and bags be checked? Should we ask mandatory security questions?
Your thoughts please ladies and gentlemen.
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Exactly what the Government - who have only our best interests at heart, of course, but in the interests of security cannot disclose those measure to anyone - would like us to do. You feel happy to leave it to them without asking any questions?
The operators went through this starting on the 12th of September three years ago and aren't losing sight of it, Tony. Bit of a strangely-timed question though.
The operators went through this starting on the 12th of September three years ago and aren't losing sight of it, Tony. Bit of a strangely-timed question though.