Operating Downwind - How many times??
How many times??
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Wind limits for aircraft / control authority sufficient?
HOGE performance?
Shallower climb angle.
Beware vortex ring / settling with power on approach.
Beware the tail on short finals, or the ground may rise up and striketh it.
HOGE performance?
Shallower climb angle.
Beware vortex ring / settling with power on approach.
Beware the tail on short finals, or the ground may rise up and striketh it.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Check the direction and speed of the wind...
Make sure that you have enough room to stop, I landed once on downwind (training excercise) and I didn't/couldn't stop as fast as I was used to.....Make sure you can apply enough aft cyclic...
Beware: Settling with power..
DJG
Make sure that you have enough room to stop, I landed once on downwind (training excercise) and I didn't/couldn't stop as fast as I was used to.....Make sure you can apply enough aft cyclic...
Beware: Settling with power..
DJG
"Just a pilot"
I have to do so fairly often, EMS.
First and foremast consideration is reduce risk exposure. Our greatest hazard is surface obstacles, so the primary planning objective is to avoid the obstacles seen on high recon and along planned exit route.
Next, considering aircraft performance, plan an approach that allows maneuver around threats you will discover on the approach, while keeping a path for a rejected approach and the go around. Usually means s-l-o-w and steep, if your plan puts you in the bucket or on the backside of the power curve-then make a new plan-or go somewhere else.
Forced landing options are usually covered by the above, but if not, that's next.
Of course, we "fly neighborly" and minimise disturbance.
Some LZ's are in urban areas, where aviation traffic is a factor.
Finally, gotta consider what's happening in the LZ itself. Sometimes you need to keep it in sight at all times, but if the it has good perimeter control, that's a lesser concern.
The process isn't a checklist-it's an equation. Change one and the others must be modified as well.
First and foremast consideration is reduce risk exposure. Our greatest hazard is surface obstacles, so the primary planning objective is to avoid the obstacles seen on high recon and along planned exit route.
Next, considering aircraft performance, plan an approach that allows maneuver around threats you will discover on the approach, while keeping a path for a rejected approach and the go around. Usually means s-l-o-w and steep, if your plan puts you in the bucket or on the backside of the power curve-then make a new plan-or go somewhere else.
Forced landing options are usually covered by the above, but if not, that's next.
Of course, we "fly neighborly" and minimise disturbance.
Some LZ's are in urban areas, where aviation traffic is a factor.
Finally, gotta consider what's happening in the LZ itself. Sometimes you need to keep it in sight at all times, but if the it has good perimeter control, that's a lesser concern.
The process isn't a checklist-it's an equation. Change one and the others must be modified as well.
Downwind Approaches
A hearth ditto to what Devil 49 said. That was a great concise statement of EMS LZ selection. I'm in EMS also and quite often the best approach is downwind, all things considered in the LZ. Looking at the larger picture, it is essential for a pilot in all areas of helicopter flying to become proficient in downwind operations. In the mountains or even in urban "terrain", the wind can take sudden changes in direction around slopes or obstructions in a matter of meters. It's a real benefit to you to know the first indications that you are experiencing a tail wind and then how to cope with it if there is no other option. If I was to return to flight instructing this is certainly a topic I would add to the curriculum. Two quick tips, Slow down and get the power in early.
That hearth was meant to be hearty, sorry
ITG
That hearth was meant to be hearty, sorry
ITG
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Another important consideration I think is weight. If you are operating close to or at mtow you may not have the power to terminate a downwind approach. If you are heavy the approach would need to be shallow and slow and if the area is tight you need to be 100% certain that there is somewhere to put the skids when you arrive.
Nothing worse than arriving in a very tight area with marginal power then finding there is nowhere to put the skids down and the machine doesn't have the power to get you back out. Trust me!!
Nothing worse than arriving in a very tight area with marginal power then finding there is nowhere to put the skids down and the machine doesn't have the power to get you back out. Trust me!!
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I don't do it at all if I can help it, but sometimes there just isn't any other way. Like OP said, weight is critical. I often have to land and take off downwind on tankers. It isn't usually a problem, since I'm normally light, but I've tried it with a heavy load & a stiff tailwind, & couldn't get it done. I wound up with 100% torque & still descending, & had to go around twice, so I just gave up & forced the tanker to turn, which didn't make him happy, but "Life's tough in the Gulf", as the saying goes. Takeoff also requires a lot more power with a tailwind, so departing at max gross probably won't be possible. Be very, very sure you have enough power before you commit to a landing.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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How many times have I operated downwind?...lots and VERY carefully or not at all.
You can usually practice downwind operations at ANY large airport where the BLOODY stupid marshallers always want you too.
I've just spent the last 7 days ferrying a 206 to Alexandria. I made 8 stops on the way and was marshalled to land downwind on 6 of them. Who trains these idiots?
You can usually practice downwind operations at ANY large airport where the BLOODY stupid marshallers always want you too.
I've just spent the last 7 days ferrying a 206 to Alexandria. I made 8 stops on the way and was marshalled to land downwind on 6 of them. Who trains these idiots?
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Sounds a bit complicated! All you need is sufficient power and remain within the helicopters capability as most do not like 35+ kts up their tail. After a few occasions, you will have the most important factor in safe flying--------experience!!
