"Police Helicopter Engine Blow Up"
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"Police Helicopter Engine Blow Up"
From the front page of tonight's (29/01/03) Peterborough Evening Telegraph;
Not too bad for the journos, but I'm not sure about the engine "blowing up."
I thought it was normally a three crew operation, a civvy pilot and two police observers, or is the pilot not important enough to warrant a mention?
The two-man crew of the Cambridgeshire police helicopter were forced to make an emergency landing when it's engine blew up.
They were forced to take actions just seconds after taking off from an RAF base.
Experts today said the pair had a lucky escape.
They were forced to take actions just seconds after taking off from an RAF base.
Experts today said the pair had a lucky escape.
Two police officers had a narrow escape when the engine of the Cambridgeshire force helicopter blew up on take-off.
The pair were only a few feet off the ground, after taking off from RAF Wyton, near Huntingdon, when they reported a problem with the engine
They were forced to make an emergency landing.
Chief Constable Tom Lloyd revealed the incident had taken place during a speech to members of the NFU.
Today, police spokeswoman Nina White refused to reveal exactly how much it would cost to repair the helicopter, or what caused the engine to blow up.
But Nick Bloom, of Pilot Magazine, said the landing could have been "very nasty" if the helicopter had turned over on its side.
If the rotors had snapped on landing and splintered into the cockpit, either man could have been killed or seriously injured.
Mr Bloom said: "The rotors are obviously moving quite quickly and if they hit the ground first it could be very nasty.
He added it would cost "tens of thousands of pounds" just to strip the engine to find out what the fault was.
The accident took place three weeks ago, although details have only just emerged. It is now back in service, but while it was out of action Cambridgeshire police was sharing helicopters belonging to the Essex and Suffolk forces.
The pair were only a few feet off the ground, after taking off from RAF Wyton, near Huntingdon, when they reported a problem with the engine
They were forced to make an emergency landing.
Chief Constable Tom Lloyd revealed the incident had taken place during a speech to members of the NFU.
Today, police spokeswoman Nina White refused to reveal exactly how much it would cost to repair the helicopter, or what caused the engine to blow up.
But Nick Bloom, of Pilot Magazine, said the landing could have been "very nasty" if the helicopter had turned over on its side.
If the rotors had snapped on landing and splintered into the cockpit, either man could have been killed or seriously injured.
Mr Bloom said: "The rotors are obviously moving quite quickly and if they hit the ground first it could be very nasty.
He added it would cost "tens of thousands of pounds" just to strip the engine to find out what the fault was.
The accident took place three weeks ago, although details have only just emerged. It is now back in service, but while it was out of action Cambridgeshire police was sharing helicopters belonging to the Essex and Suffolk forces.
I thought it was normally a three crew operation, a civvy pilot and two police observers, or is the pilot not important enough to warrant a mention?
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I thought it was normally a three crew operation, a civvy pilot and two police observers
Interesting to note that things can get, "very nasty" if a helicopter turns on it's side - the things you learn from newspapers...
DBChopper
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IMHO things could get very nasty if ANY aircraft turned on its side on landing 
Surprising they didn't know this amazing and vital fact about helicopters until the highly knowledgable spokesman from Pilot magazine informed them.......
Surprising they didn't know this amazing and vital fact about helicopters until the highly knowledgable spokesman from Pilot magazine informed them.......
I don't know what background Nick Bloom has but he obviously doesn't understand the dynamics of rotor disintegration on rollover. The safest place to be is inside the helio should it rollover. The rotors tend to fly away from the a/c (at great speed)and I have never heard of a crew being injured by the blades so long as they remain inside the a/c. A Puma rolled over at Abz and a rotor part travelled several hundred yards towards the fixed wing terminal!! At Odiham a Puma rolled over and the rotor tip passed right through the ground crew caravan fortunately missing everybody having a quick cup of tea.
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Is an EFATO in a AS355 a "big deal"? It is if the debris is uncontained (which would be consistant with a report of the 'engine blowing up'). The same ASU had one such event a few years back I recall.
As DBChopper says: Anyone know the inside story?
As DBChopper says: Anyone know the inside story?
The Brand X variety of helicopter has an interesting ability of making a new definition to "headless horseman".....even been known to do it in mid-air during "mast bumping" exercises. Being inside the aircraft is no guarantee you will retain your noggin or not almost instantly be able to be in two places at once.
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Being inside the helicopter when things go haywire does not mean that you are OK. Some years ago we had an accident, where Jet Ranger tipped on it`s side during take off. Pilot, wearing a helmet, survived with few bruises, but not so the doctor, sitting next to him. He got fatal head injury by a piece of M/R blade, wich recouchetted back into fuselage. (doctor was not wearing a helmet)
Think about this next time you leave your helmet behind.
Think about this next time you leave your helmet behind.
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Irlandes, Have you any twin time? " Not as bad as an engine failure in an AS350" Huh?? Ever experienced a high side govenor or fuel control unit failure in a twin??? Possibly engine fire, then? If you had then you would think twice about making such a comment, and that goes for all of those with the misconception that "it must be easier in a Twin, they have 2 engines,... right" Come on puppies, stop sharing your inexperience with us.
Now Dolly....having had engine failures in both singles and twins....I beg to differ.....the production of brown, semi-liquid adrenaline (which collects in ones boots finally)...is the same in both types....just with a more rapid onset in singles as I recall.
It more depends upon where and when rather than what type of aircraft. The one that wound down in cruise with an almost empty Chinook at the end of a flight with almost no fuel left was a bit of a ho-hummer but the one on short final with a 105mm howizter and A-22 bag of ammo with some internal pax on the hilltop was a bit more sporty....as was the one in the Hughes 500 coming off a 9800 foot mountain in Alaska. That is entirely too high for such events....gives one way, way, too much time to think about what is going on....combined with there being nothing but old growth forest under you for the surrounding ten miles.
I would imagine having a turbine disk go to bits and simultaneously cut the other engine into bits as has happened on some of the modern twins could be a bit moving.....but any engine failure in a single at night is bound to be a bona fide thrill.
Twins are no where as apt to generate the excitement that a single does when the donk goes away. Unless the boneheads in the cockpit decide to shut down the wrong engine....now that can be a real giggle.
It more depends upon where and when rather than what type of aircraft. The one that wound down in cruise with an almost empty Chinook at the end of a flight with almost no fuel left was a bit of a ho-hummer but the one on short final with a 105mm howizter and A-22 bag of ammo with some internal pax on the hilltop was a bit more sporty....as was the one in the Hughes 500 coming off a 9800 foot mountain in Alaska. That is entirely too high for such events....gives one way, way, too much time to think about what is going on....combined with there being nothing but old growth forest under you for the surrounding ten miles.
I would imagine having a turbine disk go to bits and simultaneously cut the other engine into bits as has happened on some of the modern twins could be a bit moving.....but any engine failure in a single at night is bound to be a bona fide thrill.
Twins are no where as apt to generate the excitement that a single does when the donk goes away. Unless the boneheads in the cockpit decide to shut down the wrong engine....now that can be a real giggle.
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Come on Dolly, give Irlandes a break
I have twin and single time and yes, I've had high side governor failures and engine fires in twins, but none of them have been near as bad as having the same thing happen in a single because most of the time you still have that other engine to take you somewhere. If it happens in a single, for sure the only place to go is down and if you're over inhspitable area the final result will not be fun! So, please don't knock a young guy who maybe doesn't have your vast experience - you must have been young and inexperienced once also
I have twin and single time and yes, I've had high side governor failures and engine fires in twins, but none of them have been near as bad as having the same thing happen in a single because most of the time you still have that other engine to take you somewhere. If it happens in a single, for sure the only place to go is down and if you're over inhspitable area the final result will not be fun! So, please don't knock a young guy who maybe doesn't have your vast experience - you must have been young and inexperienced once also
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AuntyDolly,
Do I have any twin time? Alas, no.
Have I ever experienced a high side governor or fuel control unit failure in a twin? Fortunately no.
Engine fire? See previous answer.
Considering myself to have a fairly open mind and upon reading your comments, I thought about it again (a number of times) and arrived at the same conclusion. I would rather suffer an engine failure in a twin than in a single. No rocket science there.
And as for calling me a puppy, are you perchance suffering from a lack of self esteem? Need some reaffirmation? But there I go being agressive again... I just don't know what's gotten in to me lately! (no offence Heliport!)
Irlandés
Do I have any twin time? Alas, no.
Have I ever experienced a high side governor or fuel control unit failure in a twin? Fortunately no.
Engine fire? See previous answer.
Considering myself to have a fairly open mind and upon reading your comments, I thought about it again (a number of times) and arrived at the same conclusion. I would rather suffer an engine failure in a twin than in a single. No rocket science there.
And as for calling me a puppy, are you perchance suffering from a lack of self esteem? Need some reaffirmation? But there I go being agressive again... I just don't know what's gotten in to me lately! (no offence Heliport!)
Irlandés
Last edited by Irlandés; 1st Feb 2003 at 23:45.
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So Guys, you basically missed my point. What i had taken exception to was the attitude that engine problems in twins were no big deal. At no point did I say they were no big deal in a single . Go read again. As for you Irlandes, i think you have a lot to learn, as you do certainly have a lot to say. It would be more value if you were to share your experiences, or to even ask questions. Hey I have no problem with Learners, but your writings are more suited to the bar where your big time attitude will impress the students. I like to read this site, gain something, and hopefully to add something to it, I dont appreciate a big mouth which you obviously are adding a total value of zip. I have seen a few with your attitude, and in fact employed one or two, to the detriment of myself. At least I learnt from the experience. Cheers
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AuntyDolly,
if you can show me when and where I stated that an engine failure in a twin was not a big deal, then I will take my hat off to you. Not only that, I will promise never to post on Pprune again thus leaving it to wise old sages like yourself. Now there's an offer you can't refuse.
Irlandés
if you can show me when and where I stated that an engine failure in a twin was not a big deal, then I will take my hat off to you. Not only that, I will promise never to post on Pprune again thus leaving it to wise old sages like yourself. Now there's an offer you can't refuse.
Irlandés
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Irlandes, Maybe I was alittle harsh on you. On occasion I become irked with comments that have no added value. You may have initially been tongue in cheek, however when you started dribbling about low self esteem etc....it gives me nausea. sensible commentary I welcome, Indeed those that are newer to this industry should have their comments welcomed on this site, provided they dont become silly. And by that I dont mean by showing inexperience, for this is a good site to learn from, for new guys and sages alike. So now you need to show some metal, dont throw the toys out of the cot... so to speak. Indeed you are correct, we were all new to the industry at some point. So hang in , Im sure you have a lot to add as this chosen career path you are on carries you to where it will.
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Auntydolly,
If that is an apology it leaves a lot to be desired. A little harsh? First you jump on this guy Irlandes' back for no good reason. It seemed like a fairly light-hearted comment to me (and no less accurate for that). In fact levity and a good sense of humour are important ingredients in this forum. We can't all be coming out with profound ground-breaking comments all the time. Secondly you didn't limit yourself to attacking his comment but also to calling him (and indirectly others) names. And then you claim to suffer from nausea when Irlandes replies in kind. What type of response did you expect? If you ask me his only mistake was in not availing of the opportunity to not to reply in kind. But you don't stop there, you accuse SASless and Yarba of missing the point when really it was you who had expressed yourself badly. Your subsequent rant and rave didn't do your dwindling supply of credit any good either. I see also that you didn't take Irlandes up on his final offer. Possibly because you had no ground to stand on. You may have a very genuine point of view but there are maturer and less offensive ways of getting it across.
It's been said many times, if we have to criticise, let's criticise just the ideas (and constructively at that) and not the people. I suspect there are few angels among us. Although I do know of one or two...
No Knots Landing
If that is an apology it leaves a lot to be desired. A little harsh? First you jump on this guy Irlandes' back for no good reason. It seemed like a fairly light-hearted comment to me (and no less accurate for that). In fact levity and a good sense of humour are important ingredients in this forum. We can't all be coming out with profound ground-breaking comments all the time. Secondly you didn't limit yourself to attacking his comment but also to calling him (and indirectly others) names. And then you claim to suffer from nausea when Irlandes replies in kind. What type of response did you expect? If you ask me his only mistake was in not availing of the opportunity to not to reply in kind. But you don't stop there, you accuse SASless and Yarba of missing the point when really it was you who had expressed yourself badly. Your subsequent rant and rave didn't do your dwindling supply of credit any good either. I see also that you didn't take Irlandes up on his final offer. Possibly because you had no ground to stand on. You may have a very genuine point of view but there are maturer and less offensive ways of getting it across.
It's been said many times, if we have to criticise, let's criticise just the ideas (and constructively at that) and not the people. I suspect there are few angels among us. Although I do know of one or two...
No Knots Landing
Auntydolly, I also think you could manage more of an apology than that - I don't know how long you have been reading this forum but Irlandes has made many sage and intelligent posts despite his 'lack of twin time' and has never come across as the 'big man in the bar' type of pilot.
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Returning to the original question for a moment, if know one involved is prepared to give you the info here, then keep an eye on the monthly MOR returns. - It surely should be an MOR, if it is anything like you suggest.