New Zealand BK117 Accident

[helmet fire]

A few answers to above Qs:

MBJ is right, CFIT is a very "popular" cause of helo accidents, more so than fatalities from engine failures, tail rotor failures, hydraulic failures, governor failures, etc. So what do we train for? And what systems do we make redundant? Worth a passing thought.

The serviceability of radar altimeters are largely irrelevant to this incident I would have thought - unless there is some ground warning system attached, or she was purposely flying below LSALT in which case she would have been glued to it. I dont particularly monitor my RADALT when night/IFR in the cruise, but I sure do in the descent.

Labarynth Seal:

I dont know for sure, but I very much doubt she was on NVG because she would have seen the mountain!! Unless she was in cloud, the whole thing is unlikely to have happened on NVG. And you dont require peripheral vision to see mountains in front of you on NVG.

While I am at it: WHY WASN'T THE LADY WEARING NVG? Why dont the civil aviation authorities pull their effen fingers out and MANDATE the use of NVG at night? Why are we still flying in black air at all? This mentaility is akin to negligence. See my comments above on the fact that CFIT is such a large problem in our industry. IMHO, Every night VFR CFIT since 1990 should be blamed on the fact that the civil aviation authorities failed to make use of the largest advance in helicopter EMS safety since the introduction of IFR twins. I choose 1990 because most developed countries would have had a sufficient military knowledge base for the operation of NVGs by 1990 from which to spread to the civil industry. I am not saying NVG is the panacea for the problem - but it I believe it would have the most significant impact on accident rates by almost eliminating NVFR CFIT.

Just MHO.

[AuntyDolly]

Personally Knowing this operator, I have been privy to some information. The Westpac, wellington Helicopetr operation is not IFR, is single pilot, and does not use NVG. In recent times they have lost some of their more experienced drivers, one for an overseas position that pays more (everyone pays more than NZ operators) and their CP left for an IFR position with another NZ operator. I am told the pilot in question was flying up a gully (at night) to avoid inclement weather when she placed herself in the unenviable position of attempting to outfly terrain. She used bad judgement. The operator must bear part of this blame. Like most NZ operators they work to a shoestring budget. The New Zealand operators of EMS aircraft, do not pay well, and do not tend to keep up with the rest of the world when it comes to buying decent equipment such as NVG, or even new helicopters. The Lifeflight Trust in Wellington lease the aircraft. Airwork of Auckland own the aircraft, as they do the Auckland Westpac rescue helicopter. They also provide the pilots. In recent times the public funding in particular has been missappropriated. The cash has not reached the end user to its full extent. ie, the helicopter operation. Consequently pilots are paid poorly and a lot leave for greener pastures. The effect is to filter the experience available, detract from having the best possible equipment available, or even maintain IFR pilots to the standard that is needed in the nature of terrain and weather in that country. I feel this has some contribution to this accident. Firstly the pilot was faced with VFR single pilot at night, the weather was not ideal, the IFR training if any, is substandard, the option to attempt the flight was , in the prevailing conditions, almost fatal. Did anyone provide this poor individal, the training and equipment required to undertake a flight of such nature? NO. Iam surprised that this has not happened earlier in this country. Check how many ATPL, multi IFR captains are left in that country, you can count them on your fingers. The vast majority are in places like Africa, Middle East, and Europe earning a living. Lets hear from a few of you kiwis at the coal face. Cheers

[Labarynth Seal]

Helmet Fire - I meant if she was wearing NVG's and not looking ahead, but say at the instruments or at the GPS pad on the other side of the cockpit..... .....and actually not looking where she was going (that was the peripheral ref.).

I found a link to the New Zealand CAA Accident Investiagtion Branch and thought it may be of any use, but it has limited info on it.

I found a photo of the helicopter (with it's skids on)


LS

[Te_Kahu]

AuntyDolly and All Blacks are correct that the Westpac Rescue helo in Wellington, operated by the Life Flight Trust, is a non-IFR operation and does not operate NVG. The reason LFT has given in the past is cost.

There is no requirement from the powers that be in NZ for rescue helicopters to be IFR.

However, the Westpac Rescue helo in Auckland, operated by the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust, is a fully certified IFR operation by its own choice.

ARHT also conducts extra training for its crews for night
ops, not just for the pilots, as the ethos of this organisation is that the pilots are part of a team effort not gods unto themselves.

In 33 years of operation the Auckland service has not sustained a major accident.

It may also be worth noting for those of you not in Godzone that there is very little Government funding of rescue helicopter operations in New Zealand.

Services are provided by 7 or 8 charitable trusts which operate AS 350s, or BKs. One has an S76 (Dick Smiths old machine) and one has B222.

The Ministry of Health pays for some hospital-to-hospital patient transfer work and the ACC, Accident Compensation Commission, pays for accident retrievals. There is no direct Government funding for operational costs.

These trusts survive on sponsorship*, donations, public fundraising initiatives and increasingly in recent years grants from the trusts that administar the proceeds of gaming machines. (pokie machines)

This last area is where I assume AuntyDolly was referring to misappropriation of funds. ARHT has been in the news over the relationship between it and the gaming trust that provided it funding grants and the hotels where those gaming machines were situated. This is being investigated by the authorities. ARHT has moved to address the concerns raised and I understand is cooperating fully with the authorities.

Aunty, remember natural justice and the concept of innocent until proven otherwise.

There has been no suggestion of misappropriation of public funding ie taxpayers dollars.

The gaming trust at the centre of this no longer exists. Ironically at the same time the criteria of who gets what funds from these gaming machines is being reviewed and screwed down by the Government because it's been pretty loose.

*Westpac Bank sponsors four machines in New Zealand. Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington & Christchurch. Each of those machines is operated by different trusts and the only connection between the operations is the sponsor's colours/logo/name on the machines.

[Labarynth Seal]

Te Kahu - Interesting you say that, because I would have expected, that, since it is well known fact in NZ, there is a very serious problem when it comes to Road Traffic Accidents (RTA's).

I believe this chopper was scraping a motorcyclist off the road at the time, and the accident happend on the retrieval to hospital. My point being, why is there no state funding for this problem (air ambulances)...... Just like the problem of menigitis in NZ, the goverment manage to find money for that, but seem to hold back on money for Air Ambulances, when most of the work goes on scraping people off the road..

Correct me if I am wrong here.

LS

[Te_Kahu]

The issue of the lack of direct Government funding is one all kiwi operators would like a clear and concise answer to.

It is my understanding the BK was retrieving the unfortunate motorcyclist, who had already been scraped off the road by the local ambulance crew, from Masterton Hospital (small provincial)for transfer to Wellington Hospital (major metropolitan).

This is approximately a 20 minute flight but a 1.5-2 hour road trip, part of which is very steep and windy.

[Labarynth Seal]

Are you familiar with the EMS ops down there ? What do reckon is the big problem with goverment funded EMS operations, because i would say that NZ is no poorer that Norway and we manage to do it.

LS

[AuntyDolly]

Thanks for your reply Te Kaha. I understand there is 2 or 3 IFR EMS helicopters in NZ. Across the ditch from where I am we have an application from an IFR check captain from New Zealand. From what Im told was formerly with the Auckland operation you mentioned...........has under 200 hours IFR...........see what I mean by filtering of experience

[sealion]

Any Landing you can walk away from is a good landing!

[SASless]

Being a current BK-117 pilot, experienced in EMS and flight operations in mountaninous terrain at night.....I can easily understand how this event occurred. It is no slight of the pilot's ability or experience that this happened to her. For all of you that are so quick to find fault....take a walk in her boots for a bit. Single pilot, night, mountains, dark....no horizion, stress of the EMS mission playing on your mind......no NVG's, no GPWS, no moving map display, no copilot, your hands full by any hero's standard......and a tree shows up by surprise.

I got news for you detractors.....except for the grace of the good lord go lots of us....including a dear friend who has all the goodies on his aircraft except for the NVG's....and he got a "Terrain...Pull Up!" warning the other night while enroute VFR over some mountains.

Put yourself in that cockpit.....after the collision in the dark with the ground.....and despite being injured personally....she was able to maintain control of the aircraft, herself, and the situation and ultimatley land the aircraft safely and get the patient to the hospital. That speaks for itself.....and good on her.

We hairy legged of the species usually regale our drinking buddies of similar accounts while gathered at our usual watering holes......and we all nod and smile. This Lady is welcome to share my favorite spot anytime......and I will buy!

Like it or not guys.....the Lady is a pilot.....and she was out there in the dark doing the job.....we should be proud of her as we would be of anyone else that was out there risking their neck to help an injured person. EMS is a dangerous business and we should support those that take the risks.....it isn't making circles around an airfield or plodding out to a platform or haulling the boss to the golf course.

[t'aint natural]

Flungdung:
The pilot's error was to accept the job, under the circumstances. A motorcyclist's life may have been at stake, and she chose to attempt to save him, despite the conditions.
As a motorcyclist, I'd rather meet her than you.

[What-ho Squiffy!]

What about LSALT?

I have read the posts, but excuse me if I have missed something.

This helicopter was below LSALT (actually below terrain, in a gully) with no NVG's. This means she was using a night sun right? If not, she was using bright moonlight, or the force?

Not having used night suns before, what are the normal procedures regarding enroute?

Thanks.

[t'aint natural]

...but none the less true

[Irlandés]

Flungdung,
could you explain why it's impossible for a second pilot to climb on board and take over on the dual controls? I've climbed in and out of the BK on a number of occasions (albeit parked and friendly) and can see no reason why it wouldn't be possible. I mean if she could hold it steady enough for the firemen to cut the skids off, then what's stopping someone climbing in?

Thanks!

Irlandés

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

Mindless???

Irlandés,

And where would this BK117 type rated helicopter pilot spring from? Would one of the firemen be suddenly annointed? All hail! Or would they have waited the 2 odd hours until someone capable of what you describe drove to the scene? No hang on a minute - one of the firemen just happened to have a large top hat to reach into. Like p****ing in the corner of a round room.

[Irlandés]

Ma que dici??

Giovanni,
your sarcasm is both misplaced and misguided. I was not referring to the logistical problems of finding a pilot, simply asking why it would be impossible for him/her to climb in and take over if he/she were available to do so.

I was querying Flungdung's comment that "Anyone who has climbed into the pilot seat of a BK117 with rotors running on the ground during the day will know that to do the same thing from a hover at night and take over control from an injured pilot is impossible." All I was asking was for him to further elaborate on this point.

You give truth to the old adage 'there's no such thing as a stupid question, there are only stupid answers.'

Ciao,
Irlandés

[John Eacott]

Irlandes,

The left seat of a BK117, with dual controls fitted, is exceptionally difficult to get into and out of. The seat itself is close to the left door frame, and the collective when in the full down position is so close to the front doorframe and the cyclic that great care is needed to thread an average size 10 into the footwell. With the collective up in the hover, it would be a job for a professional contortionist to get in without disturbing the controls. Added to that issue is the twitchieness (like that word?) of the BK at the best of times in the hover; I imagine that with a damaged airframe, injured hand, and a bit of adrenaline whizzing around the system, a replacement pilot would have been a bit down on the list of priorities.

FWIW, I believe that regardless of the circumstances that caused the accident, the pilot seems to have done a remarkable job in recovering, then getting the damaged aircraft back on the ground. Those that live in glass houses, shouldn't

[Steve76]

OK... so climbing in and out of the A/C in the hover is a nogo.

I think that "t'aint natural" made a relevant point and should not necessarily be scorned for being a PPL. That's a little immature.

It is interesting to note that as a PPL he still had the commonsence to suggest that a LSALT should apply to this route. Now assuming it is say...1000ft above the highest obstacle enroute then that means either a loss of situational awareness (something we have all done....) resulting in a decent in excess of 1000ft; OR; it was a case of scud running at night. Tricky during the day while single pilot VFR, and just crazy at night.

Certainly this is all speculation but I am getting frustrated by the numerous comments to hold back in discussing these accidents. We talk, we surmise, we guess, we correct each other ... its what this place is all about. If we cannot sit down for a good chin wag in the anonimity (spelling?) of the internet, then I think all this typing is a waste of time.

What about some follow-up on the outcome of the relevant authorities investigations.

[Irlandés]

John Eacott,
very reasonable reply. Just what I was looking for. Thanks.

Changing topics...
not too impressed by this recurring tendency of certain ppruners to turn their noses down at those of us who have less experience. If one thing a year of reading this forum has taught me, it's that having a million hours of experience on everything from the Jolly Green Giant to the Millenium Falcon doesn't automatically preclude one from posting absolute, mind-blowing claptrap. And vice-versa.

We should judge people's comments on just that, their comments and not some five second research into their personal profile.

Irlandés

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

Irlandés,

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

Ma dai! Read the name of the site!