New Zealand BK117 Accident
night transfer over a mountain range something you Poms would not have encountered
Granny,
Not your brightest post, "a simple night transfer over a mountain range something you Poms would not have encountered." I suspect a few SAR/EMS pilots in UK might be able to enlighten you as to the terrain and weather to be found in many parts of the British Isles.
Not your brightest post, "a simple night transfer over a mountain range something you Poms would not have encountered." I suspect a few SAR/EMS pilots in UK might be able to enlighten you as to the terrain and weather to be found in many parts of the British Isles.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Facts....
Not knowing this crew or operator.........but certainly know the tasks that were being asked that night.......
I guess we all know the servicability of the aircraft prior to the contact with the trees, the actual weather onsite...IFR...VFR....rain, turbulence, CB's, mountain waves, icing, visibility...........because if we don't, we surely can't pass any type of informed comment, yet alone judgement.
I guess we all know the servicability of the aircraft prior to the contact with the trees, the actual weather onsite...IFR...VFR....rain, turbulence, CB's, mountain waves, icing, visibility...........because if we don't, we surely can't pass any type of informed comment, yet alone judgement.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In the Haven of Peace
Age: 79
Posts: 600
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a post on here only 2 weeks ago about a fatal crash in Nigeria which managed to steer clear of the informed, or otherwise, speculation of the type we see here about this accident in New Zealand. I'm sure that there are people who also know some of the facts about that (Nigerian) accident, but at least they have the decency to keep their OPINIONS to themselves until such time as an official report has been issued. It's a shame that some of the posters on this thread have not seen fit to exercise some more restraint - maybe a reflection on their maturity, or lack thereof.
Oestrogen Rich Environment
Snr Sgt quotes " all female helicopter crew"
In most accident reports it doesn't appear necessary to describe an "all male crew."
Has this been contributory to the negative theme of this thread?
In most accident reports it doesn't appear necessary to describe an "all male crew."
Has this been contributory to the negative theme of this thread?
OK. SO no slagging or rumours about anything....
Then can someone make a point of reporting the outcome of the investigations into incidents we discuss.
Remember the 412 smacking the photographer prior to going out on a skydiver hop? Whatever happened there??
Then can someone make a point of reporting the outcome of the investigations into incidents we discuss.
Remember the 412 smacking the photographer prior to going out on a skydiver hop? Whatever happened there??
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Up a sago palm
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was trying to work out what would make me descend below lowest safe at night on a transfer flight………to be honest, I could think of b_gger all, other than an emergency. Even a mechanical problem in the BK would have to be pretty severe to force me down, and given that they could continue flight and hover for an hour suggests that there was no ‘prior’ mechanical problem. Of course they wouldn’t task a helicopter to transfer a patient that would be affected by altitude or vibration so I ruled that out as well.
Then I thought of Icing. I guess icing is really an emergency in itself, and is one of the few things that could force an aircraft to descend below lowest safe.
If this was the case then I have to admit that we probably shouldn’t be too hard on the pilot. But if it wasn’t…………………………hmmmmmm.
What would you do if you had icing in this scenario.?
Then I thought of Icing. I guess icing is really an emergency in itself, and is one of the few things that could force an aircraft to descend below lowest safe.
If this was the case then I have to admit that we probably shouldn’t be too hard on the pilot. But if it wasn’t…………………………hmmmmmm.
What would you do if you had icing in this scenario.?
Being a current BK pilot...having flown EMS....also having flown in the UK at night and in the "mountains" such as you call them....knowing a few female pilots.....etc.... I somehow feel qualified to speak to the many comments offered so far. It is maybe a bit rude to make a joke....at times such as these.....and I support the concept that "except for the Grace of God....go I!"......to pop off with some off the wall observations about a pilot who had a spot of bad luck....for whatever reason....without knowing the true circumstances sure strikes me as being designed to evoke comments taking them to task.
The Lady recovered from a bad situation and ultimately landed the aircraft, delivered the patient, and I hope all is well that ends well for her, the crew, and the patient. She is not the first nor the last helicopter pilot to run over a tree.....they seem to leap up and fetch us a smart knock to the ego every now and then.
I sure hope her detractors remember this , when it is their turn in the barrel....for it is surely coming as bad as their judgement seems to be from reading their comments.
The Lady recovered from a bad situation and ultimately landed the aircraft, delivered the patient, and I hope all is well that ends well for her, the crew, and the patient. She is not the first nor the last helicopter pilot to run over a tree.....they seem to leap up and fetch us a smart knock to the ego every now and then.
I sure hope her detractors remember this , when it is their turn in the barrel....for it is surely coming as bad as their judgement seems to be from reading their comments.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fine and fair answer Sasless. I was beginning to think that errors only happened within a certain gender. Now, come fellow pilots, stop beating up on your own. Who hasn't screwed up a time or two, or made a wrong choice, etc... and paid for it one way or another. Unfortunately the price is sometimes incredibly high, this is the part where we're to learn something from it.
Too high to eat grass
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: landdownunder
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spraygear -
that was a terrible comment about her being better off in the kitchen, it was a late night flight she should have been in the bedroom
To flungdung
An armchair expert I am not but your right about having too little to occupy me, however I do fly at night in mountains and IFR and EMS etc etc perhaps if she went IFR over the top instead off VFR into the mountains she would not have hit a tree, or at least maintained VFR minimas she would have seen where she was going
I too await rebuttal!!
that was a terrible comment about her being better off in the kitchen, it was a late night flight she should have been in the bedroom
To flungdung
An armchair expert I am not but your right about having too little to occupy me, however I do fly at night in mountains and IFR and EMS etc etc perhaps if she went IFR over the top instead off VFR into the mountains she would not have hit a tree, or at least maintained VFR minimas she would have seen where she was going
I too await rebuttal!!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZ BK117 Accident
Granny & Spraygear -
Sasless - Very professional comment - I would have expected nothing less from a man of your experience.
Just one observation from the comments is that it was a dark evening. Nothing was mentioned if she was wearing NVG's or not?
I work for the Norwegian Air ambulance (Flying BO105 which is a single man pilot operation) and they have just started sending us on all on NVG certification. The thing is, if she had NVG's on, could her peripheral vision been reduced. But if as Red Wine said
We don't know the full metar for that evening. So no-one has the right to hurl derogatory femminist crap at a fellow pilot.
Without blowing sunshine out of her arse, but don't forget, she managed to fly the machine whilst injured, and the make an emergency landing after having to hang around for an hour and then land the damn thing without injuring more people. Deserves a medal, if not some serious fellow professional praise.
LS
Sasless - Very professional comment - I would have expected nothing less from a man of your experience.
Just one observation from the comments is that it was a dark evening. Nothing was mentioned if she was wearing NVG's or not?
I work for the Norwegian Air ambulance (Flying BO105 which is a single man pilot operation) and they have just started sending us on all on NVG certification. The thing is, if she had NVG's on, could her peripheral vision been reduced. But if as Red Wine said
I guess we all know the servicability of the aircraft prior to the contact with the trees, the actual weather onsite...IFR...VFR....rain, turbulence, CB's, mountain waves, icing, visibility...........because if we don't, we surely can't pass any type of informed comment, yet alone judgement
Without blowing sunshine out of her arse, but don't forget, she managed to fly the machine whilst injured, and the make an emergency landing after having to hang around for an hour and then land the damn thing without injuring more people. Deserves a medal, if not some serious fellow professional praise.
LS
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know very little about flying helicopters and less still about EMS operations etc, however whatever mistakes were or were not made, by anyones standard this lady has got to be congratulated on her flying.
To have continued whilst injured and hovered a helicopter for over an hour which I would think is no mean feat in itself, how can anybody bring themselves to criticize this pilot.
Any mistakes made are for the authorities to investigate, I for one would be intersted in finding out who the lady is and where she trained and I will book a PPL/H there tomorrow.
To those of you out there who have displayed a little anti female in the cockpit comments I would suggest those sort of opinions should have been consigned to the last century. As an airline pilot I can tell you that in this day and age that sort of attitude is not tolerated, its all part of CRM.
To have continued whilst injured and hovered a helicopter for over an hour which I would think is no mean feat in itself, how can anybody bring themselves to criticize this pilot.
Any mistakes made are for the authorities to investigate, I for one would be intersted in finding out who the lady is and where she trained and I will book a PPL/H there tomorrow.
To those of you out there who have displayed a little anti female in the cockpit comments I would suggest those sort of opinions should have been consigned to the last century. As an airline pilot I can tell you that in this day and age that sort of attitude is not tolerated, its all part of CRM.
I don't get why we have to congratulate someone for hovering for an hour. What was the option? Roll the thing up and do worse than she already had done??
There should be not pats on the back here but merely a recognition that at least the created problem was dealt with.
If she was that badly injured, why did another pilot not climb in and take over?
Sounds like a lot of media BS to me.
For those in the know....was the pilot CP?
There should be not pats on the back here but merely a recognition that at least the created problem was dealt with.
If she was that badly injured, why did another pilot not climb in and take over?
Sounds like a lot of media BS to me.
For those in the know....was the pilot CP?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BK117 Accident
Steve - So a pat on the back is not recognition...in your eyes. Now I know you are experienced in EMS operations and you have been, I am sure through some hairy moments. But did those hairy moments get you in the news or even onto pprune?
I agree with you that there is alot of Media BS going on here, and not alot of fact verification, but, just exactly was the last time you were hit by a tree, and then got back in your chopper, moderately injured in an arm and then proceed to fly back to wherever she came from and then having just one skid.......yeah in know, any one can hover for an hour.......then have a fireman cut the other skid off and then land in a bed of tyres......Sorry mate, but not even your days are that action packed.....
.....Can only presume this was a single pilot operation. She did well not to endanger any more lives, thats all i am saying.
LS
I agree with you that there is alot of Media BS going on here, and not alot of fact verification, but, just exactly was the last time you were hit by a tree, and then got back in your chopper, moderately injured in an arm and then proceed to fly back to wherever she came from and then having just one skid.......yeah in know, any one can hover for an hour.......then have a fireman cut the other skid off and then land in a bed of tyres......Sorry mate, but not even your days are that action packed.....
.....Can only presume this was a single pilot operation. She did well not to endanger any more lives, thats all i am saying.LS
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48 Deg South
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lifeflight Trust in Wellington is a single pilot operation. The lady in question came from South Africa where she was a co-pilot on S-61s from what I understand. Not sure if or where she got her command and on what.
AB
AB
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whatever the reason for the initial damage the pilot did pretty well to keep on trucking, great incentive to do so of course, because her arse was in a sling as well if she didn't.
Does anyone know if the machine had a serviceable Radar Altimeter? I presume it must have done if it was an EMS ship?
I notice from Flight Mag that CFIT is on the up and up amongst our FW brothers..so lets try to make sure its not contagious?
Does anyone know if the machine had a serviceable Radar Altimeter? I presume it must have done if it was an EMS ship?
I notice from Flight Mag that CFIT is on the up and up amongst our FW brothers..so lets try to make sure its not contagious?