BALPA warning
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BALPA warning
BALPA Has recently taken on pay negotiations on behalf of the pilot work force at a certain UK police and EMS support helicopter company.
BALPA has accepted a package on behalf of the employees that will increase many fixed base pilots gross pay by up to 10%. Non fixed base pilots (about 20% of the pilots) will see their hardship allowance increased by 400% (quadrupled). Good news. I hear you say.
BALPA also agreed, in the same package, to reductions in the allowances paid to those pilots who run the company contracts around the country.(i.e. the unit chief pilots, another 20% of the pilot work force).Some unlucky chief pilots will see their allowances cut by up to 80%!!
BALPA sanctioned these cuts without the affected pilots prior knowledge or agreement.
BALPA has stated this is legal! (As BALPA had been given the mandate to negotiate on behalf of all the pilots!)
What do you think, Rotorheads?
BALPA has accepted a package on behalf of the employees that will increase many fixed base pilots gross pay by up to 10%. Non fixed base pilots (about 20% of the pilots) will see their hardship allowance increased by 400% (quadrupled). Good news. I hear you say.
BALPA also agreed, in the same package, to reductions in the allowances paid to those pilots who run the company contracts around the country.(i.e. the unit chief pilots, another 20% of the pilot work force).Some unlucky chief pilots will see their allowances cut by up to 80%!!
BALPA sanctioned these cuts without the affected pilots prior knowledge or agreement.
BALPA has stated this is legal! (As BALPA had been given the mandate to negotiate on behalf of all the pilots!)
What do you think, Rotorheads?
Last edited by psyclic; 11th Jan 2003 at 15:37.
It is your union....exercise your control over it by voting and other measures....also stay involved. I cannot believe all this went on without anyone being aware of it....if so....then your apathy caught up with you.
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Apparently the Company Council did not consider that the company package would penalise the unit chief pilots. The chief pilot changes were not even on the agenda for the meeting. The amendment was carefully slipped in by the company late in the afternoon. The CC members and the head office rep failed to spot the consequences and the whole package was agreed.
The potential damage has since been notified to the CC. Now BALPA is reluctant to do any thing and will not cancel the members vote.
Some of those chief pilots have paid thousands over the years in BALPA subscriptions. This is their reward!
The potential damage has since been notified to the CC. Now BALPA is reluctant to do any thing and will not cancel the members vote.
Some of those chief pilots have paid thousands over the years in BALPA subscriptions. This is their reward!
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Psyclic,
forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be heaping the blame on Balpa. Certainly the guy from New Road (do they still live there?) should have spotted it, but so should your CC, they are your reps, you elected them, so they should shoulder much of the blame. Sadly I fear it's a bit late for you to do much about it now, but perhaps others will learn from this and be a little more diligent in their negotiations.
Collective bargaining does allow your CC to accept deals on your behalf, however, if you, the membership, want to have the final say before acceptance, then tell them 'no deals without our approval'. It's your CC, they represent you and should do as you say.
Would be interested to know just what allowances were lost to the Unit Chief Pilots.
Here's hoping you it can be sorted out,
Chopperman.
forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be heaping the blame on Balpa. Certainly the guy from New Road (do they still live there?) should have spotted it, but so should your CC, they are your reps, you elected them, so they should shoulder much of the blame. Sadly I fear it's a bit late for you to do much about it now, but perhaps others will learn from this and be a little more diligent in their negotiations.
Collective bargaining does allow your CC to accept deals on your behalf, however, if you, the membership, want to have the final say before acceptance, then tell them 'no deals without our approval'. It's your CC, they represent you and should do as you say.
Would be interested to know just what allowances were lost to the Unit Chief Pilots.
Here's hoping you it can be sorted out,
Chopperman.
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Is it legal for the allowances of non-BALPA chief pilots to be affected by these cuts?
Some of us have made a deliberate decision NOT to become members.
Some of us have made a deliberate decision NOT to become members.
Well now.....maybe the company is getting their money's worth....but you get to keep the title and have all that prestige! Plus you get to fiddle the Imprest Fund too as well .....or have they cut that off too?
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This sounds like some sacred cows coming home to roost, and the result of around 15 years of apathy on behalf of the pilots.
Isn't the CP of the largest unit, on the CC?
Are the ones who will benefit most from the new deal, the ones who have put most effort into securing this?
Its your union and your CC.
Isn't the CP of the largest unit, on the CC?
Are the ones who will benefit most from the new deal, the ones who have put most effort into securing this?
Its your union and your CC.
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Bertie,
BALPA must be the only union to negotiate a negative pay deal.
This just confirms what I already thought, that they are not very successful at working for the members who contribute.
BALPA must be the only union to negotiate a negative pay deal.
This just confirms what I already thought, that they are not very successful at working for the members who contribute.
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ShyTorque,
When requested, Balpa do provide a negotiator to assist in these matters, however, he/she works in conjunction with the CC (elected by the members) to offer help and advice. The CC's negotiating team play a major part in, and are present at all levels of these negotiations, it is they, as the elected representatives of the pilots, who say what is acceptable/not acceptable. So, if the company got away with this one then the CC and the Balpa rep all deserve a kick where the sun doesn't shine for not reading the document prior to signing.
Personally, if I were a CP in this company, (shudder at the thought), I would resign the position and go back to being a lowly line pilot and let some other sucker do the job.
Hope this doesn't sound to blunt, I'm just trying to explain it as it is.
Chopperman.
When requested, Balpa do provide a negotiator to assist in these matters, however, he/she works in conjunction with the CC (elected by the members) to offer help and advice. The CC's negotiating team play a major part in, and are present at all levels of these negotiations, it is they, as the elected representatives of the pilots, who say what is acceptable/not acceptable. So, if the company got away with this one then the CC and the Balpa rep all deserve a kick where the sun doesn't shine for not reading the document prior to signing.
Personally, if I were a CP in this company, (shudder at the thought), I would resign the position and go back to being a lowly line pilot and let some other sucker do the job.
Hope this doesn't sound to blunt, I'm just trying to explain it as it is.
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I aggree with Chopperman. The N Sea pilots negotiated a good deal with the operators because they gave their CC strict guidelines within which to negotiate with BALPA and the company. The company tried a lower offer which was outside the allowable negotiating terms so a ballot was called and this offer was rejected. A strike was imminent and the company then offered a settlement within the negotiating parameters which was accepted by the CC and most people were happy. My BALPA membership has been paid many times over by the increase I received and is well worthwhile. It does bug me a little that some pilots are willing to take the payrises but not join the union. We won our pay increase because we had a solid BALPA membership who were prepared to take the ultimate sanction and strike and the company knew this hence the better offer.
AP
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Why should it bug you that some pilots did not join Balpa? Some pilots may have very valid reasons not to join a big union, so why hold it against them? After all, you got the pay rise and you're happy with it.
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Well I joined and guess what; I'm going to get a pay cut!
In summary: the Company hoodwinked our CC and balpa rep. Balpa now too embarrassed/idle to recall the membership vote,(due 17 jan and only 40 odd members). ACAS have just advised that package should not be voted on if a minority of members are potentially disadvantaged. Balpa/CC still sloping shoulders.
So thats the good reason for not joining!
Meanwhile the Company is laughing up its sleeve!
In summary: the Company hoodwinked our CC and balpa rep. Balpa now too embarrassed/idle to recall the membership vote,(due 17 jan and only 40 odd members). ACAS have just advised that package should not be voted on if a minority of members are potentially disadvantaged. Balpa/CC still sloping shoulders.
So thats the good reason for not joining!
Meanwhile the Company is laughing up its sleeve!
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Psyclic
I am sorry that you are getting a pay cut but that it no reason for not joining.
Imagine each union member as a bee. One bee stinging has little effect no matter how hard he buzzes about. A swarm of bees stinging, however, has a marked effect on those being stung.
Management's job is to get the most work out of you for the least cost. They will try everything possible to do this as emphasised by your management slipping in an amendment to the negotiations. I bet this happened at the end of the discussions after some concessions had been won from the management and the CC were congratulating themselves and had therefore taken their eye off the ball.
The N Sea pilots would not have won the pay rise they did if everybody had your attitude to the union. We won because we had numbers behind us and the company knew that we had the willpower to strike even though this would have resulted in a personal financial loss. There were non-union members who would have worked through the strike because they would succumb to management pressure and it is these people who bug me a little as they are quite happy to take the payrise but are not willing to pay the small monthly subs to be a member of the union and have the backbone to stand up for themselves. Fortunately we had a large enough and militant enough membership, along with support from our union "brothers" in Norway, to win the day.
So all I can say is that by not joining a union all you can hope for is scraps from management's table. CHC has demonstrated, by it treatment of the pilots in Ireland that it will not award payrises across the group. Each pilot's group has to fight its' own corner.
Good luck to those in Ireland.
AP
Ps Pysclic if you are not happy with what the company are offering unit chief pilots why don't you all get together and inform the company that you are all not wanting to be chief pilots unless the allowances improve. You don't have to be a member of a union to do this!!
I am sorry that you are getting a pay cut but that it no reason for not joining.
Imagine each union member as a bee. One bee stinging has little effect no matter how hard he buzzes about. A swarm of bees stinging, however, has a marked effect on those being stung.
Management's job is to get the most work out of you for the least cost. They will try everything possible to do this as emphasised by your management slipping in an amendment to the negotiations. I bet this happened at the end of the discussions after some concessions had been won from the management and the CC were congratulating themselves and had therefore taken their eye off the ball.
The N Sea pilots would not have won the pay rise they did if everybody had your attitude to the union. We won because we had numbers behind us and the company knew that we had the willpower to strike even though this would have resulted in a personal financial loss. There were non-union members who would have worked through the strike because they would succumb to management pressure and it is these people who bug me a little as they are quite happy to take the payrise but are not willing to pay the small monthly subs to be a member of the union and have the backbone to stand up for themselves. Fortunately we had a large enough and militant enough membership, along with support from our union "brothers" in Norway, to win the day.
So all I can say is that by not joining a union all you can hope for is scraps from management's table. CHC has demonstrated, by it treatment of the pilots in Ireland that it will not award payrises across the group. Each pilot's group has to fight its' own corner.
Good luck to those in Ireland.
AP
Ps Pysclic if you are not happy with what the company are offering unit chief pilots why don't you all get together and inform the company that you are all not wanting to be chief pilots unless the allowances improve. You don't have to be a member of a union to do this!!
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I like the bee annalogy. But what if all the bees are out in the fields when somebody comes along and smashes part of the beehive, but because it's not the part that the leader bee lives in, they won't come back to fight the intruder until they have finished work?
It has happened before, where unions were very selective in who's interests they represented. I cannot blame pilots for leaving or not even joining, even though I pay my union dues it's still a free world and everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.
It has happened before, where unions were very selective in who's interests they represented. I cannot blame pilots for leaving or not even joining, even though I pay my union dues it's still a free world and everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.
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Rotorheads, I'm very sorry for butting in without the details.
Any PAS guys reading this thread should go to the PAS forum for details of another management scam in the great BALPA negotiated pay deal.
Any PAS guys reading this thread should go to the PAS forum for details of another management scam in the great BALPA negotiated pay deal.
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Just thought it aprropriate to remind some contributors that we live in a democracy.I have never joined a union out of personal choice. I make my own representations. If I don't like what the company do then I find another job. What's the problem?
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Sadly, this is the story of aviation and unions. Read "Flying the Line" - which is the ALPA (US) story, and you'll find lots of - 'hey - that's us' episodes.
If all management were perfect and enlightened, and all pilots were perfect and equally enlightened, we wouldn't end up in this situation.
The message is very clear- you have to get involved. Each and every person has to get involved. Then, and only then do you have a chance of getting something that you want, and of understand the mechanisms of negotiating.
Why do you think the Professional Helicopter Pilots Assocation (PHPA) has been formed in the US?
Pay attention, get involved, vote (early and often, as they say).
If all management were perfect and enlightened, and all pilots were perfect and equally enlightened, we wouldn't end up in this situation.
The message is very clear- you have to get involved. Each and every person has to get involved. Then, and only then do you have a chance of getting something that you want, and of understand the mechanisms of negotiating.
Why do you think the Professional Helicopter Pilots Assocation (PHPA) has been formed in the US?
Pay attention, get involved, vote (early and often, as they say).
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"Police pilots lead into chaos by BALPA paycuts."
"Is the air over our cities safe?"
"Choppers spiral while pilots spin"
"Pilots pay cuts lead to Safety questions"
"Police force grounds choppers while pilots fume"
Need I continue?
"Is the air over our cities safe?"
"Choppers spiral while pilots spin"
"Pilots pay cuts lead to Safety questions"
"Police force grounds choppers while pilots fume"
Need I continue?