Ten Days in Russia.
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Whirlybird
On all (or most) Kamovs yaw is by differential collective. The pedal control is automatically switched at the onset of autorotation. This way yaw control is the same from the pilot's perspective. I understand that the transition is a little interesting.
If you want to try a Kamov, come to Canada and do some heli-logging.
Dave J.
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Barannfin,
Interesting question.
Here are a couple of previous postings by H-43, on the intermeshing Huskie. Perhaps the situation is similar.
Edited to add;
Apparently, there is a, yet unannounced, method of handling yaw for the next generation of intermeshing helicopters, which is said to overcome yaw control problems.
Dave J.
Interesting question.
Here are a couple of previous postings by H-43, on the intermeshing Huskie. Perhaps the situation is similar.
H-43 on PPRuNe ~ July 26, 2001
As for turning when the pilot makes a pedal input, the pitch is increased on one set of rotor blades and decreased on the other by a mechanical mixing system. The resulting higher torque from one rotor system rotates the helicopter. Also, at the same time through the same mixer one rotor disk is tilted forward and the other back helping to turn the aircraft. The only bad part of this system is that at some power settings it is ineffective. This in turn can cause some interesting moments for an inexperienced pilot. I remember the first time it happened to me. As I was approaching to land the nose started wandering off to the left so I added right pedal and added and added right pedal until I hit the pedal stop and we were still turning left! About this time, the other pilot flying with me told me just to add a little collective and the problem would correct itself. Sure enough it did but it was still one of the more interesting moments of my training!
H-43 on PPRuNe ~ September 7, 2001
As far a pedal unresponsiveness is concerned, I really don't know how the K-Max is set up or how it flies. But the Huskie is unresponsive because it uses differential pitch to cause yaw. In an autorotation the requirements change so there is a mechanical reverser assembly that changes the direction of the differential pitch change pushrod. At a certain low point in its travel the reverser output rod will not move at all no matter what the deflection of the pedal input. This complicates thing during low power settings such as during a descent.
As for turning when the pilot makes a pedal input, the pitch is increased on one set of rotor blades and decreased on the other by a mechanical mixing system. The resulting higher torque from one rotor system rotates the helicopter. Also, at the same time through the same mixer one rotor disk is tilted forward and the other back helping to turn the aircraft. The only bad part of this system is that at some power settings it is ineffective. This in turn can cause some interesting moments for an inexperienced pilot. I remember the first time it happened to me. As I was approaching to land the nose started wandering off to the left so I added right pedal and added and added right pedal until I hit the pedal stop and we were still turning left! About this time, the other pilot flying with me told me just to add a little collective and the problem would correct itself. Sure enough it did but it was still one of the more interesting moments of my training!
H-43 on PPRuNe ~ September 7, 2001
As far a pedal unresponsiveness is concerned, I really don't know how the K-Max is set up or how it flies. But the Huskie is unresponsive because it uses differential pitch to cause yaw. In an autorotation the requirements change so there is a mechanical reverser assembly that changes the direction of the differential pitch change pushrod. At a certain low point in its travel the reverser output rod will not move at all no matter what the deflection of the pedal input. This complicates thing during low power settings such as during a descent.
Apparently, there is a, yet unannounced, method of handling yaw for the next generation of intermeshing helicopters, which is said to overcome yaw control problems.
Dave J.
Last edited by Dave Jackson; 20th Oct 2002 at 00:52.
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Heli logging in Canada in a Kamov....hmmm...it's tempting. But I'll probably just be ever so boring and try and save enough pennies to go to Russia again next year and get to fly one there - along with all the other aircraft I wanted to fly but couldn't.
I think getting rid of a tail rotor sounds like a nice idea, but I do kind of feel safer if my pedals work when and in the way that I expect them to; I'm odd that way. Just for general interest, in R. W Prouty's "Even More Helicopter Aerodynamics", which is where I'm finding out all this (for me) rather obscure stuff, he tells of someone whose first helicopter was a coaxial, presumably in the days before anyone did fancy things to reverse the pedals in autorotation:
"The first time he tried to autorotate, he found himself spinning around and around even though he was using full rudder pedal in what he thought was the correct direction. It was only with a few hundred feet of altitude remaining that he decided he didn't have anything to lose by pushing with the other foot, thereby saving himself."
Arrrrggggggghhhhh!!!! I don't even want to think about it.
Maybe I'll stick to nice conventional helicopters with tail rotors.
I think getting rid of a tail rotor sounds like a nice idea, but I do kind of feel safer if my pedals work when and in the way that I expect them to; I'm odd that way. Just for general interest, in R. W Prouty's "Even More Helicopter Aerodynamics", which is where I'm finding out all this (for me) rather obscure stuff, he tells of someone whose first helicopter was a coaxial, presumably in the days before anyone did fancy things to reverse the pedals in autorotation:
"The first time he tried to autorotate, he found himself spinning around and around even though he was using full rudder pedal in what he thought was the correct direction. It was only with a few hundred feet of altitude remaining that he decided he didn't have anything to lose by pushing with the other foot, thereby saving himself."
Arrrrggggggghhhhh!!!! I don't even want to think about it.
Maybe I'll stick to nice conventional helicopters with tail rotors.
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Whirley
Sounds like you had a fantastic time. Would love to do something like that next year. Im doing my commercial at the moment but sounds like the perfect way to build some time and experience..
No seriously, if your looking to put a group together for next year, im in!!!
Rotormad
Sounds like you had a fantastic time. Would love to do something like that next year. Im doing my commercial at the moment but sounds like the perfect way to build some time and experience..
No seriously, if your looking to put a group together for next year, im in!!!
Rotormad
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advancing_blade,
Many many thanks for telling me about these trips. I would have said this earlier, but I'd forgotten your PPRuNe handle.
And you should have come!
Many many thanks for telling me about these trips. I would have said this earlier, but I'd forgotten your PPRuNe handle.
And you should have come!
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Awesome Stuff Whirly
,Keep it coming!!!
I just returned from East Timor and managed to get abit of time in the Mi8.You are right that the Force trim really takes abit to get used to.Also it was nice of them to tell me to push the button in on the collective to make it go up and down after I had almost dislocated my shoulder trying to pull on power...
,Keep it coming!!!I just returned from East Timor and managed to get abit of time in the Mi8.You are right that the Force trim really takes abit to get used to.Also it was nice of them to tell me to push the button in on the collective to make it go up and down after I had almost dislocated my shoulder trying to pull on power...
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TC,
I can't quite remember. While I was in Russia there were three crashes: an AN2 in Siberia, the KA26 we were due to fly, and one other - and I can't remember what it was. But nobody really "discusses" them much, because it's very difficult to find out anything - it all seems to be rumours by word of mouth, and questions as to why we're grounded yet again.
I didn't often take pax along for circuits - unless you count the interpreter, someone to use my camcorder, someone who just happened to be around, etc.
Before anyone suggests that it's a dangerous place to fly, this was NOT a typical week. Nathalie said in ten years and 36 trips to Russia she'd never known one like it - for accidents, airspace closures, weather, everything. Many many years ago, in my misspent youth hitch-hiking round the world (about half of it anyway), I developed a reputation among my friends for inviting (or causing) trouble; several times I'd just left a country when they had a civil war or coup or earthquake or something. I thought I'd left all that behind. But after this trip, I wonder....
Kiwi Skiv,
I found it hard enough to manage the collective in the Mi8 even knowing about the trim; it's heavy! But that was partly because we were doing low level circuits a lot, so I needed to use it a lot. And also a language mix-up when hovering - Sasha said: "Trim every time", which I thought meant trim every time you want to move it, which is a bit awkward when you're hovering. So I tried, and I was on and off that button every second. What he actually meant was "Trim all the time", ie keep your finger on the button all the time when hovering; a lot easier. I think there's something to be said for speaking the same language as your instructor.
I can't quite remember. While I was in Russia there were three crashes: an AN2 in Siberia, the KA26 we were due to fly, and one other - and I can't remember what it was. But nobody really "discusses" them much, because it's very difficult to find out anything - it all seems to be rumours by word of mouth, and questions as to why we're grounded yet again.
I didn't often take pax along for circuits - unless you count the interpreter, someone to use my camcorder, someone who just happened to be around, etc.
Before anyone suggests that it's a dangerous place to fly, this was NOT a typical week. Nathalie said in ten years and 36 trips to Russia she'd never known one like it - for accidents, airspace closures, weather, everything. Many many years ago, in my misspent youth hitch-hiking round the world (about half of it anyway), I developed a reputation among my friends for inviting (or causing) trouble; several times I'd just left a country when they had a civil war or coup or earthquake or something. I thought I'd left all that behind. But after this trip, I wonder....
Kiwi Skiv,
I found it hard enough to manage the collective in the Mi8 even knowing about the trim; it's heavy! But that was partly because we were doing low level circuits a lot, so I needed to use it a lot. And also a language mix-up when hovering - Sasha said: "Trim every time", which I thought meant trim every time you want to move it, which is a bit awkward when you're hovering. So I tried, and I was on and off that button every second. What he actually meant was "Trim all the time", ie keep your finger on the button all the time when hovering; a lot easier. I think there's something to be said for speaking the same language as your instructor.
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Ka-26 answer
First of all sorry for my English, guys, I'm from Russia (hopefully your Russian is just a little better than my English :-)) Someone here asked about autorotation on Ka-26 helicopters. I have some hours (around 3000) in this helicopter and have done quite a few autorotations. The pedals work the same way, no difference from the conventional helicopters. Everything works the same way.
The advantages of co-axial machines are: short tail boom, so no worries in confined areas; no worries where is the wind from - right or left; no extra power for the tail rotor, so all power is used in the main rotors; etc...
The advantages of co-axial machines are: short tail boom, so no worries in confined areas; no worries where is the wind from - right or left; no extra power for the tail rotor, so all power is used in the main rotors; etc...
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Karel,
Zdrastvitye i spasiba! Sorry, I don't have a Russian keyboard, so that's as close as I can get. Your English is far far better than my Russian! And it's nice to have a Ka26 expert to answer all my questions. So if you can manage to explain, how exactly does yaw work on the KA26? And how do they stop it turning the wrong way in auto-rotation?
Zdrastvitye i spasiba! Sorry, I don't have a Russian keyboard, so that's as close as I can get. Your English is far far better than my Russian! And it's nice to have a Ka26 expert to answer all my questions. So if you can manage to explain, how exactly does yaw work on the KA26? And how do they stop it turning the wrong way in auto-rotation?
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Здравствуйте Whirlybird!
Yaw works on the KA26 theoreticly pretty simple way: when you push the right pedal the blade pitch angle on the upper rotor increases and on the lower rotor decreases. It gives the yaw moment to the right which in turn with conjnction with the right bank gives you a perfect right turn. In auto-rotation the rotor system works the same way as the conventional helicopters. Basically there is no difference in the rotor theory except the tork compensates with the other rotor not with the tail rotor.
Yaw works on the KA26 theoreticly pretty simple way: when you push the right pedal the blade pitch angle on the upper rotor increases and on the lower rotor decreases. It gives the yaw moment to the right which in turn with conjnction with the right bank gives you a perfect right turn. In auto-rotation the rotor system works the same way as the conventional helicopters. Basically there is no difference in the rotor theory except the tork compensates with the other rotor not with the tail rotor.
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Thanks to The Nr Fairy , my photos of this trip can now be seen at http://www.fototime.com/inv/F593CDIB294163E
Dohhhhhhhhh!!!! I just tried that link, and it gets you to the site, but not the photos. Nr Fairy , what else do you have to do to see them?
Dohhhhhhhhh!!!! I just tried that link, and it gets you to the site, but not the photos. Nr Fairy , what else do you have to do to see them?