Rear View Mirrors

[Michael Gee]

Years ago Pilots of Military Helicopters asked for Rear View Mirrors. We never did get them. Are they now fitted to help or are there digital aids ?

[Gordy]

I have a backup camera in one of my 407's.....

[ShyTorque]

Even more silly, RAF Pumas were at one time fitted with rear view mirrors. It was just prior to the fitting of polyvalent (PIP) engine intakes. The “book” purpose was to monitor the intakes and the flat plate cowling area between them for any build up of ice/snow; the engines had no other ice protection and a small amount of slush going down an open Turmo intake could cause a flameout. This slightly extended the low temperature operational envelope. However, when the PIP intakes were fitted the mirrors were removed, much to our dismay. As far as I know, there had been absolutely no consultation with operational aircrew on their removal. On seeing that they were being taken away (and the rivets holding the brackets being drilled out) we asked to retain them because they could be repositioned to look all the way down the sides of the aircraft, which allowed the front seat occupants to view both the exhausts and the tail. The FRC engine fire warning drills required us to “Check for signs of fire” before taking further actions. Mirrors would have made this so easy.. how else would this be easily done if IMC?

[SansAnhedral]

Funny, one of my first designs early in my career was the rear view mirror install for the CH-148. Have not seen anything like it on new designs since.

[212man]

Bristow S-61s and Super Pumas had them. You felt blind when moving to a type without them.

[Lonewolf_50]

SH-60B Seahawks had them. You can see them attached to the upper corner of the wind screen on both sides.

Seahawk IOC was early 1980's.

[Ant T]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50

SH-60B Seahawks had them. You can them attached to the upper corner of the wind screen on both sides.

Seahawk IOC was early 1980's.

That’s interesting - I really missed them when moving to the S92 from the S61 and AS332, but was told that the S92 couldn’t have them because of the risk of a detached one ending up in the engine intake (not a problem on S61/AS332 with intake protection).
However, that photo looks very similar to S92 intakes, so maybe what I was told was wrong.

[dangermouse]

RN Merlins do

ASW Mer!ins have had them for years the Mk 3 / 4 don't as they have rear crewmen capable of walking around in flight. Later AW101 have a tail fin fitted fwd looking camera instead

DM

[212man]

Originally Posted by Ant T

That’s interesting - I really missed them when moving to the S92 from the S61 and AS332, but was told that the S92 couldn’t have them because of the risk of a detached one ending up in the engine intake (not a problem on S61/AS332 with intake protection).
However, that photo looks very similar to S92 intakes, so maybe what I was told was wrong.

For the S92 I think it was an icing certification issue. Bear in mind it has a full icing clearance (with RIPS), so it was about chunks of ice hitting the TR.

[malabo]

Flew fires IA with 212/412 that had those stick-on convex mirrors on the inside of the door. Land, open the door, then reference the mirror to place the skids on that rear log. Also helped to see how far down you were sinking into the bog.

Had a log Jill-poke up between the belly tank and the skid once - held the hover until a savvy firefighter chainsawed it outta there. Mirrors help.

[Ant T]

Originally Posted by 212man

For the S92 I think it was an icing certification issue. Bear in mind it has a full icing clearance (with RIPS), so it was about chunks of ice hitting the TR.

Thanks - now you say it, that is what I was told…
Only three months retired and I’ve already forgotten half of what I ever knew😄

[212man]

Originally Posted by Ant T

Thanks - now you say it, that is what I was told…
Only three months retired and I’ve already forgotten half of what I ever knew😄

Don’t worry - you knew a shed load so you can forget a lot and still know more than most!

[John Eacott]

The Westland Sea King initially had no drivers' mirrors, but they came along later (early 70's?) and ISTR the IGV salt build up leading to M'Larky Jim's forced landing may have been a catalyst in their installation. We always thought the lack of barn doors was an oversight on the initial build, along with removing the ashtrays for the nicotine addicts

No idea whether they continued or not, later Sea King drivers may be able to comment

[212man]

Originally Posted by John Eacott

No idea whether they continued or not, later Sea King drivers may be able to comment

Photos online suggest yes. E.g. https://www.planespotters.net/photo/...d-sea-king-hu5

[piggybank]

Rear view mirrors Bell 212 helicopters PNG

Rear view mirrors were fitted to all our Bell 212 helicopters in PNG, However one helicopter came back from routine maintenance at our Goroka base and with no mirrors fitted to the inside of pilot and copilot door. The mirrors had been removed. Mirrors were ordered and were refused by management and stores saying it would constitute a major change to maintenance to fit them. So there I was at a brick wall. Our other Bell 212's at the Moro base had rear view mirrors - I think there were 4 Bell 212 helicopters there.

[Evil Twin]

One of our 139's has tail boom and fin mounted cameras. An interesting tool when training and the instructor wants to see into a CA or similar but as much a distraction as anything else.

[Lama Bear]

We had mirrors mounted on all of our helicopters in the 70's. Toe mount on most with a chin mount on the 206s and Lamas.

Chin mount

Skid mount

[casper64]

H135 and H145 have rearward looking cameras (amongst other cameras)

[Hedge36]

I can't remember an SH-2 without them, but I never really thought about it until I went searching for images - and found plenty of examples without.

[Hot and Hi]

Originally Posted by Lama Bear

We had mirrors mounted on all of our helicopters in the 70's. Toe mount on most with a chin mount on the 206s and Lamas.

Chin mount

Skid mount

But I guess that was to see the load, or the hook, not?