what visa for an FAA IR(H) course
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18
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From: EU
what visa for an FAA IR(H) course
As a European citizen who holds FAA CPL and CFI certificates I intend to add an initial instrument rating and ATPL(H) to my license.
I would like to see a concise but clear explanation to my doubt as there simply doesn`t seem to be a definite answer on the web, rather it seems to be a grey area.
In terms of the TSA clearance requirement, it's clear that one would need to be approved for sure but as for the visa...
... my understanding is that if you plan to enter the US primarily for flight training, in a full time course of OVER 18 hrs per week, you will need a student (M-1) visa that only part 141 schools can sponsor you for.
What legal documents or regulations do USCIS officers refer to in order to determine whether I will spend more than the mentioned 18hrs/week or less? I guess with a part 141 school,one could look at their study curriculum that lists the number of hours of ground and flight tuition per week but in case of a part 61 school i could study at my own pace and state that I will study less than 18 hours a week, couldn`t I? This, in theory, from my understanding would determine if I can just fill out an ESTA online and clear immigration as a tourist who will undergo some training too or is forced to go through an annoying process of applying for an M1 student visa?
Could someone who recently went through these trainings as a non-us citizen provide some clarity ?
Thank you so much!
I would like to see a concise but clear explanation to my doubt as there simply doesn`t seem to be a definite answer on the web, rather it seems to be a grey area.
In terms of the TSA clearance requirement, it's clear that one would need to be approved for sure but as for the visa...
... my understanding is that if you plan to enter the US primarily for flight training, in a full time course of OVER 18 hrs per week, you will need a student (M-1) visa that only part 141 schools can sponsor you for.
What legal documents or regulations do USCIS officers refer to in order to determine whether I will spend more than the mentioned 18hrs/week or less? I guess with a part 141 school,one could look at their study curriculum that lists the number of hours of ground and flight tuition per week but in case of a part 61 school i could study at my own pace and state that I will study less than 18 hours a week, couldn`t I? This, in theory, from my understanding would determine if I can just fill out an ESTA online and clear immigration as a tourist who will undergo some training too or is forced to go through an annoying process of applying for an M1 student visa?
Could someone who recently went through these trainings as a non-us citizen provide some clarity ?
Thank you so much!
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: India
9 FAM 402.5-5(J)(7) (U) Aviation Training
(CT:VISA-1970; 04-22-2024)
a. (U) All flight training for initial training or subsequent training that will result in a certificate or rating must be undertaken on an F or M visa. This includes FAA, EASA, and other equivalent certificates.
b. (U) Recurrent or refresher training (training related to an aircraft for which the applicant has already received certification) may be undertaken on a B-1. Recurrent training is the training required for crewmembers to remain adequately trained and currently proficient for each aircraft crewmember position, and type of operation in which the crewmember serves. It often consists of flight simulator training but may also entail classroom training to update pilots on such things as recent safety issues, trends in aviation, and modifications to aircraft configuration or operating procedures. This assumes that the applicant’s employer is covering the recurrent training costs, incidental costs, and that the applicant does not receive a salary or perform labor in the United States.
(CT:VISA-1970; 04-22-2024)
a. (U) All flight training for initial training or subsequent training that will result in a certificate or rating must be undertaken on an F or M visa. This includes FAA, EASA, and other equivalent certificates.
b. (U) Recurrent or refresher training (training related to an aircraft for which the applicant has already received certification) may be undertaken on a B-1. Recurrent training is the training required for crewmembers to remain adequately trained and currently proficient for each aircraft crewmember position, and type of operation in which the crewmember serves. It often consists of flight simulator training but may also entail classroom training to update pilots on such things as recent safety issues, trends in aviation, and modifications to aircraft configuration or operating procedures. This assumes that the applicant’s employer is covering the recurrent training costs, incidental costs, and that the applicant does not receive a salary or perform labor in the United States.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 72
Likes: 12
From: East of Luxor
I've been through this recently for fixed wing training.
Previously, I had completed 5 Type Ratings with a AFSP/TSA Approval and by entering the country (USA) on a B1 Visa.
Then, about 18 months ago, it changed to requiring a a TSA Security Threat Assessment. A event-non-specific approval valid for a number of years (Can't remember!).
Recently, I needed a new Type Rating and the Provider advised that I needed an M-1 Visa. I queried this, based on my previous experiences. It turns out that with the move towards Part 142 (instead of Part 61) for Training, an "Initial Type Rating" is an Educational event, not a Business event, therefore, requiring a "Student" (M-1) Visa, not a Business Visa.
Now, a recurrent training event, or additional training of any kind, Differences, RVSM, PBN, whatever, comes under a B1 Visa, but an Initial requires an M-1 if it is conducted under a Part 142 approved training course.
So, I now have B1/B2, C1/D and an M-1 visa, the latter issued only for a specific organisation, and it was a pain to get.
It is what it is.
Previously, I had completed 5 Type Ratings with a AFSP/TSA Approval and by entering the country (USA) on a B1 Visa.
Then, about 18 months ago, it changed to requiring a a TSA Security Threat Assessment. A event-non-specific approval valid for a number of years (Can't remember!).
Recently, I needed a new Type Rating and the Provider advised that I needed an M-1 Visa. I queried this, based on my previous experiences. It turns out that with the move towards Part 142 (instead of Part 61) for Training, an "Initial Type Rating" is an Educational event, not a Business event, therefore, requiring a "Student" (M-1) Visa, not a Business Visa.
Now, a recurrent training event, or additional training of any kind, Differences, RVSM, PBN, whatever, comes under a B1 Visa, but an Initial requires an M-1 if it is conducted under a Part 142 approved training course.
So, I now have B1/B2, C1/D and an M-1 visa, the latter issued only for a specific organisation, and it was a pain to get.
It is what it is.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 128
Likes: 3
From: Near the source of insanity
Just stumbled across this thread and gonna piggyback if you don't mind:
I stopped flying a few years ago for family reasons (word of advice: don't...) and trying to get back into the game to convert my license; in order to that I first have to re-activate my FAA CPL/IR(H).
Now do I understand this correct in the way that for an hour's worth of BFR and an Instrument Proficency Check I'd have to obtain a B1 visa for that? Or does that rule not apply because I'm doing it on my own dime and not receive any compensation for it?
I stopped flying a few years ago for family reasons (word of advice: don't...) and trying to get back into the game to convert my license; in order to that I first have to re-activate my FAA CPL/IR(H).
b. (U) Recurrent or refresher training (training related to an aircraft for which the applicant has already received certification) may be undertaken on a B-1 [...] This assumes that the applicant’s employer is covering the recurrent training costs, incidental costs, and that the applicant does not receive a salary or perform labor in the United States.
