LA police helicopters in the spotlight
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The following 3 users liked this post by admikar:
Most ridiculous assessment ever made. The City Controller faults the air support division for not having adequate metrics. I would ask him to quantify how many metric tons of carbon dioxide is a life worth?
Pandering
Comptroller is 33-year-old former Green Party member and multiple failed congressional candidate--another also-ran politician attempting to advance his career lashing out at rotorcraft.
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The report stated, (empasis on "patrols" added by me:
Typically law enforcement helicopters will just patrol random areas, (focused on high crime areas, when not on an active call. Think about a patrol car---if there is no crime he is working on, does he go back and sit in the station? Nope, he drives around. When I flew LE we had to fly an average of 6 hours flight time per shift, so we just flew around, occasionally circling areas, and lighting up businesses at night if for no other reason but to show a presence and act as a random deterrent.
not in response to reports of major crimes, but instead for transportation, ceremonial trips or patrols.
The following 3 users liked this post by Gordy:
LAPD helicopter audit provokes questions about the program
and i place on lot of credibility on sergio perez, chief of accountability and oversite quoted in this on air interview talking about the physical effects on aircrew flying below the recommended altitudes of 1000 miles...
you cannot make this s**t up..
I have been in the helicopter as a pilot and on the ground as a Patrol Officer.
There is some truth and a whole lot of fantasy in the LA Report.
Yes....the noise of the helicopter can be a problem to ground units.....that is a fact.
Tactics properly employed especially with the latest technology can prevent that from happening.
Deterrence....that is something that cannot be determined by means of an audit.
How do you value something that did not happen?
What value is patrolling? Again....how do you assign values to that?
How many roof top break-ins are ever discovered by the Air Units?
How much effect does the sound of overhead rotor blades have on a group of shop lifters?
Can the helicopter reduce the risk to civilians in car pursuit situations....most definitely.
But again....how do you assess a value to that?
Los Angeles is a very large area....and having a helicopter airborne will almost certainly reduce the response time if the aircraft is in a fairly short distance distance from the scene.
What value do you assess for surveillance time using FLIR and other technology such as NVG's.....and IR Search lights?
Transporting SWAT Teams, Water Rescue Divers, and other specialized tasks....doing Live Hauls all improve the ability of the Police to respond to special needs scenes.
What I find absolutely laughable is the comparison of the Air Unit annual costs to the other departments that were cited......but then I also have to consider the linked source to understand the bias that it is so well known for.
How many tons of carbon dioxide is generated by those departments that save no lives and prevent no crimes?
If the Police helicopter using its FLIR system locates a missing child or senior adult....or tracks down a fleeing felon who has just committed a murder or other serious crime.....what amount of emissions are those events worth in the scheme of things.
California is known as the Granola Land for a reason and this is just another demonstration of just how utterly stupid some folks can be out there.
An analysis of operations designed to improve the efficiency and safety of the operation would make sense and have a place in the proper administration of the LAPD but the quoted report sure doesn't sound as if that was the reason.
As soon as it raised the notion of emissions.....that killed it for me. Climate change is a far lower priority than dealing with crime that affects the community to a far greater degree than climate.....as violent offenders are killing people every day and causing much negative effect upon every day living.
There is some truth and a whole lot of fantasy in the LA Report.
Yes....the noise of the helicopter can be a problem to ground units.....that is a fact.
Tactics properly employed especially with the latest technology can prevent that from happening.
Deterrence....that is something that cannot be determined by means of an audit.
How do you value something that did not happen?
What value is patrolling? Again....how do you assign values to that?
How many roof top break-ins are ever discovered by the Air Units?
How much effect does the sound of overhead rotor blades have on a group of shop lifters?
Can the helicopter reduce the risk to civilians in car pursuit situations....most definitely.
But again....how do you assess a value to that?
Los Angeles is a very large area....and having a helicopter airborne will almost certainly reduce the response time if the aircraft is in a fairly short distance distance from the scene.
What value do you assess for surveillance time using FLIR and other technology such as NVG's.....and IR Search lights?
Transporting SWAT Teams, Water Rescue Divers, and other specialized tasks....doing Live Hauls all improve the ability of the Police to respond to special needs scenes.
What I find absolutely laughable is the comparison of the Air Unit annual costs to the other departments that were cited......but then I also have to consider the linked source to understand the bias that it is so well known for.
How many tons of carbon dioxide is generated by those departments that save no lives and prevent no crimes?
If the Police helicopter using its FLIR system locates a missing child or senior adult....or tracks down a fleeing felon who has just committed a murder or other serious crime.....what amount of emissions are those events worth in the scheme of things.
California is known as the Granola Land for a reason and this is just another demonstration of just how utterly stupid some folks can be out there.
An analysis of operations designed to improve the efficiency and safety of the operation would make sense and have a place in the proper administration of the LAPD but the quoted report sure doesn't sound as if that was the reason.
As soon as it raised the notion of emissions.....that killed it for me. Climate change is a far lower priority than dealing with crime that affects the community to a far greater degree than climate.....as violent offenders are killing people every day and causing much negative effect upon every day living.
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“The flights are a major source of pollution and appear to disproportionately affect some communities of color, the audit said.”
That statement certainly sets the tone of the audit. I suspect relative to all sources of emissions in the LA area, the contribution of 17 helicopters is trivial (trivial even relative to just LAX traffic).
My locality PD operates a pair of B429s and I’m happy to have them as a taxpayer. Yes, they are noisy (one flew over at 700 ft as I type this), but that’s a reasonable inconvenience for effective PD surveillance.
That statement certainly sets the tone of the audit. I suspect relative to all sources of emissions in the LA area, the contribution of 17 helicopters is trivial (trivial even relative to just LAX traffic).
My locality PD operates a pair of B429s and I’m happy to have them as a taxpayer. Yes, they are noisy (one flew over at 700 ft as I type this), but that’s a reasonable inconvenience for effective PD surveillance.
I spent 6 years in police aviation, and when there was only one chopper airborne to cover Sydney metro area and more, it was mostly to reduce response times. Night patrols were generally pleasant, and the deterrence factor worked many times when we followed a pair of cars into a known dumping area, waited a minute, then lit up the thieves about to strip and torch the stolen car.
Also prevented (or delayed) some pregnancies, when the suspicious cars headed for the dark areas contained people wanting privacy. They didn't get any, so to speak.
Also prevented (or delayed) some pregnancies, when the suspicious cars headed for the dark areas contained people wanting privacy. They didn't get any, so to speak.
one thing wrong with that article, thats the pohot its the Las Vegas Metro Police Dept Air Support only Airbus Helicopters H145
cheers
cheers
How much effect does the sound of overhead rotor blades have on a group of shop lifters?
As soon as it raised the notion of emissions.....that killed it for me. Climate change is a far lower priority than dealing with crime that affects the community to a far greater degree than climate.....as violent offenders are killing people every day and causing much negative effect upon every day living.
Meh, LA can't be saved, but "maybe" the planet can be?
,...and since the Progressives took over, nothing deters shop lifters. They just walk in, take what they want, and walk out,..and nobody tries to stop them. The Progressive Utopia, lol.
Works out at about 2.6% of the total LAPD budget. In terms over arrests made, that wouldn't without the helicopter, safe conduct of pursuits, negative searches of crime scenes(which are a positive result, saving fruitless man hours of patrols on the ground) it has to be good value for the money.
As a comparison, the UK budget for 15 helicopters and 4 FW was $36.4M for 2022/23, and the cost per flying hour was about $3200.
As a comparison, the UK budget for 15 helicopters and 4 FW was $36.4M for 2022/23, and the cost per flying hour was about $3200.
I’m with “Righty” on this.
Human life and prosperity is much more important than emissions. Therein lays the problem, people of the Green persuasion think the “planet” is more important than people all the while forgetting they are human too and likely contribute more to consumption and emissions than 90% of their fellow humans. Some of the biggest proponents have CO2 footprints larger than entire cities, Something I find very hypocritical.
As SASless eludes while there is a direct cost that’s easily measured the benefits are less tangible. This is a cheap and nasty headline grab.
The good news is the outcome from
CO2 is probably no where near as bad as you think.
Human life and prosperity is much more important than emissions. Therein lays the problem, people of the Green persuasion think the “planet” is more important than people all the while forgetting they are human too and likely contribute more to consumption and emissions than 90% of their fellow humans. Some of the biggest proponents have CO2 footprints larger than entire cities, Something I find very hypocritical.
As SASless eludes while there is a direct cost that’s easily measured the benefits are less tangible. This is a cheap and nasty headline grab.
The good news is the outcome from
CO2 is probably no where near as bad as you think.
But then there's this gem from the chief who "asserts that the perspective from aerial officers had helped police on the ground avoid shooting civilians."😂
Last edited by helichris; 16th Dec 2023 at 14:57.
I’m with “Righty” on this.
Human life and prosperity is much more important than emissions. Therein lays the problem, people of the Green persuasion think the “planet” is more important than people all the while forgetting they are human too and likely contribute more to consumption and emissions than 90% of their fellow humans. Some of the biggest proponents have CO2 footprints larger than entire cities, Something I find very hypocritical.
As SASless eludes while there is a direct cost that’s easily measured the benefits are less tangible. This is a cheap and nasty headline grab.
The good news is the outcome from
CO2 is probably no where near as bad as you think.
Human life and prosperity is much more important than emissions. Therein lays the problem, people of the Green persuasion think the “planet” is more important than people all the while forgetting they are human too and likely contribute more to consumption and emissions than 90% of their fellow humans. Some of the biggest proponents have CO2 footprints larger than entire cities, Something I find very hypocritical.
As SASless eludes while there is a direct cost that’s easily measured the benefits are less tangible. This is a cheap and nasty headline grab.
The good news is the outcome from
CO2 is probably no where near as bad as you think.
That being said, I also hear they are raising the streets in Miami due to rising sea levels, so,...
Then again, removing all the police helicopters would probably have as much impact on "saving the planet" as their impact is on "saving the cities from crime", lol.
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I lived in Lansing, Michigan many years ago. The city had a noisy police helicopter that would fly random patterns with its incredibly powerful spotlight sweeping the ground. It was tremendously obnoxious and disturbed many hours of sleep. I complained to the city and flights seemed to stop. I'm guessing I wasn't the only one complaining; the cost and nuisance factors seemed to outweigh the positives.
That's a bold statement. Got any facts to support it?
