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Conundrum ; What bird to own for PPL (H)

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Conundrum ; What bird to own for PPL (H)

Old 14th Sep 2023, 05:09
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not sure about that
Originally Posted by Robbiee
I'd say, just stick with the ppl, simply review your ground every so often
I might sound a bit intolerant because I rode with those types,
pilot with very poor finesse, letting the speed bleed to hover while fumbling with the map
landing down wind thinking to be upwind (did you do a power check? huh no)
badly unaware of trafic or obstacles, what you gonna say that's their R44.

Originally Posted by Robbiee
my two biggest regrets in aviation are getting my CPL
the EASA CPL is quite hard you won't get out until you can nail any type of autorotation (hover, 360, long-range, and mixed, like a patern to a spot)
learned some excelent techniques for managing power and became much better at staying ahead of the aircraft. in turn I got more bandwidth for the rest of the general awareness.

Originally Posted by Robbiee
I only flew with an instructor when I absolutely HAD to
All my FAA instructors have been quite useless, stay away from them


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Old 14th Sep 2023, 15:42
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@Agile: Frankly, I have seen also both sides of the pond and I had good and bad instructors on both sides. My first instructor was in now EASA-land and frankly he was awful. I had some very good FAA instructors, who showed me, among other things, good autorotation techniques. But the main thing that kills people is CFIT in helicopters. I personally think, that there is a unjustified emphasis on autorotations in the current training scheme. My instructor for PPL and CPL was Australian trained (ex mustering pilot, and a bit crazy) and we had quite few flights, where he showed me different scenarios where I would not see obstacles. THAT was helpful.
@Robbie: Oh my. I think you don't realise how that additional training has sharpen your skills.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 15:54
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@HoYea: With a PPL-Ticket fresh of the press, you are not a save pilot. As my examiner said, it is a license to learn. The CPL with it's higher standards, gives you an additional step up and a sense of accomplishment. The training is helpful. The additional theory that you would not need is just that part, what a commercial pilot can do or not. Everything else makes you a better pilot. As a private pilot, you will never get the same additional training a commercial pilot would get, because most instructors will be a bit more easy on you, because you have not trained to higher standards.
And you can tell yourself a thousand times you cherish your life. Every single pilot out there does that. And the single thing that will prevent you to be a statistic, is training. There is never too much of it.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 16:00
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Originally Posted by Rotorbee
@HoYea:. And the single thing that will prevent you to be a statistic, is training. There is never too much of it.
totally agree, thatís why (step by step) I wouldínt mind taking additional training. But it does not imply CPL in its traditional form par say.

And of course Iím not implying in anyways that after a PPL, youíre an experienced pilot!, just saying that itís the start.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 16:46
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One thing about training. If you don't test it, it will be less efficient. See HoYeah, the thing is, if you do some course somewhere and you pay a lot of money for it, you will just sail trough. You are a customer and they want to make you happy. If you take a sling load course as a PPL, nobody ever is going to believe you will ever use it. If you instead go through a training with the goal of achieving a new certification, you will study hard and work for it. The examiner gets his money if you pass or not. Passing an exam is very satisfying. Assuming we are about the same age, a few years ago I deep dove into physics, especially cosmology with the help of EdX. I have later worked my way through text books about general relativity to understand more of it, but nothing gave me more pleasure and satisfaction, when I passed all the tests in those first courses. Which are, as they claim, about the standard of an undergraduate course. The satisfaction to do something to an established standard is worth the effort. If you don't have to work hard for it it is not worth it. The same goes for the CPL and IFR, you have to work hard for it, it does make you a better pilot and no courses on the side will ever give you the same satisfaction. You claim you want to do something, you always dreamed of, but from the beginning you want the easy way. Accomplishing your dream will be so much more amazing, if you set the bar high.
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Old 14th Sep 2023, 18:32
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Originally Posted by Agile
not sure about that

I might sound a bit intolerant because I rode with those types,
pilot with very poor finesse, letting the speed bleed to hover while fumbling with the map
landing down wind thinking to be upwind (did you do a power check? huh no)
badly unaware of trafic or obstacles, what you gonna say that's their R44.


the EASA CPL is quite hard you won't get out until you can nail any type of autorotation (hover, 360, long-range, and mixed, like a patern to a spot)
learned some excelent techniques for managing power and became much better at staying ahead of the aircraft. in turn I got more bandwidth for the rest of the general awareness.


All my FAA instructors have been quite useless, stay away from them
Well, in all fairness I've flown with some private owners who were totally accidents waiting to happen, but not all ppl's are like that.

As for that "additional training" Rotorbee? It was basically a week of 180į autos and off airport landings. Two things I was never allowed to do as a renter, lol.

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Old 14th Sep 2023, 21:57
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Hoyeah

Best advice is find a good utility pilot , preferably one that has a load of lifting experience who is obviously an instructor. If one can lift loads all day on a line then you will find they know more about handling helicopter than almost anyone else. You will be taught how to really fly a helicopter
All the best
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 04:55
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Speaking of statistics

Originally Posted by Rotorbee
@HoYea: And the single thing that will prevent you to be a statistic, is training. There is never too much of it.
Great exchange, thank you guys. It is obvious that there are quite a few schools of thoughts out there regarding PPL.

@Rotorbee totally agree that the more you fly the better you should get and that includes regular training on emergency procedures and other techniques.

Iíve checked the TSB stat report on aviation for 2021: https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/stats/avia...ssao-2021.html

Here are the stats that break down the helicopter accidents in Canada per year 2011-2021.


Stats from 2011 to 2021



Footnotes for the same stats

For example, It shows 28 accidents in 2021; 19 for commercial and 9 for Private. Unfortunately it does not isolate flight hours and movements of Private vs Commercial and one could argue that the % for Private would be much higher than the one for Commercial.

What seems to generally transpire from your comments is basically ; CPLís holders should be the only ones safe and qualified to fly and they should do it on a full time to be on top of things as opposed to PPL holders that just got their tickets from flight school because theyíre happy to take your money and will just please you, releasing you from training as a liability. -A short resume😋-.

Iíma bit puzzled by what youíre saying. I donít agree that getting a PPL is ďa short and easy wayĒ to achieve the dream of flying without efforts. Why would one could not get the satisfaction of achieving something by completing this training? PPLís are not handed out in Cracker Jacks boxes as far as I know?

I also donít really agree that taking additional training, for example long line or mountain flying would be useless, there is always something to take for any training that stays in your mind, the process of learning AND the content of what youíre learning canít be qualify as useless just because youíre not doing it for a living. No?
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 05:19
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911

You havenít filled us in yet whether your Porsche is PDK, or manual.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 05:43
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Originally Posted by Hot and Hi
You havenít filled us in yet whether your Porsche is PDK, or manual.
PDK on the 992TT, if I want to go manual I need to hop in of my 240Zís for a more mechanical experience.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 06:13
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one could argue that the % for Private would be much higher than the one for Commercial
Just that we are on the same page here. The flight hours flown by commercial pilots per year are much higher than for private pilots. Especially hours flown per active pilot. And as in most countries, I suppose that also in Canada, the number of commercial helicopter pilots is higher than the number of privat pilots. Since we do not know anything more about this list of accidents, it is pretty much useless.
Do as you wish. You might change your opinion when the insurance quotes drop in. Some insurers have been known to demand a safety pilot for quite a few hours after a PPL. 50 hours isn't uncommon, depending on the complexity of the aircraft/helicopter. The savings in insurance premium alone could pay for your CPL. And you do the hours anyway.
​​​​​​​PPL’s are not handed out in Cracker Jacks boxes as far as I know?
Some might say, that this is a quite accurate description of some flight schools. Not that I know any. Reminds me a bit of a "Examiner on Staff" marketing pitch discussion we had many moons ago.
There you go. You have the ships you can buy, anything from the R22 to the H125 or A119. Try them out. Write the check.
See ya.

PS: The only 911 worth having ist the Dakar.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 08:12
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Hours do not a pilot make - I've flown with people with 200 hours with whom I would trust anything and people with 17000 with whom I would trust nothing.

Neither does the type of licence - in the essentials, they are just the same. I don't teach someone half of dynamic rollover just because they're doing a PPL!

Certainly get an instructor who has been out in the real world and can teach you good habits right from the start. But it's a fair point that a CPL may help with insurance companies, but they don't live in the real world either. It's not a lot of extra work.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 09:30
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Originally Posted by paco
Hours do not a pilot make - I've flown with people with 200 hours with whom I would trust anything and people with 17000 with whom I would trust nothing.
Yes its all a matter of attitude, I cut into this thread because I am not convicinced "HoYeah" has that in mind yet

Originally Posted by paco
Neither does the type of licence - in the essentials, they are just the same. I don't teach someone half of dynamic rollover just because they're doing a PPL!
Yes but rotorbee has a very valid point:
Originally Posted by Rotorbee
As a private pilot, you will never get the same additional training a commercial pilot would get, because most instructors will be a bit more easy on you, because you have not trained to higher standards.
Examiner a lot more easy on me for my PPL
Originally Posted by paco
Certainly get an instructor who has been out in the real world and can teach you good habits right from the start.
You are one of those good guy paco, (with real world learnings) glad to have had my theory from you years ago, bad habit are where I spent most flight hours fixing.
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Old 15th Sep 2023, 10:10
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HoYeah, if you havenĎt seen it already, you might want to have a look at this. Especially the article about insurance:https://helitrader.com/HUB?category=79
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Old 21st Sep 2023, 23:45
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Originally Posted by Rotorbee
PS: The only 911 worth having ist the Dakar.
Rotorbee I have to agree with you about that! Canít wait to have my Dakar delivered, with a scheduled build date of 12/23 I still have a few months to wait🤦‍♂️
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 02:33
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I also donít really agree that taking additional training, for example long line or mountain flying would be useless
Through necessity had to teach myself mountain flying in a place subject to the Roaring Forties, not fun and many, many butt clenching occasions, glad it only lasted a couple of years. You have your head screwed on Sir.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 16:00
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I have to agree with you about that! Can’t wait to have my Dakar delivered, with a scheduled build date of 12/23 I still have a few months to wait
Ok, now I hate you just a tiny little bit. Did you buy it with the rally kit and the Rough Roads Livery?
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 16:03
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Originally Posted by Rotorbee
Ok, now I hate you just a tiny little bit. Bought it with the rally kit?
Unfortunately yesÖ Rallye Design Package in White/Gentian Blue, roof rack and the whole nine yards 😝😋😉Ö
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 16:20
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Not the tent?
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