Stoke Air Ambulance

[chopper2004]

In reading Hill HX50 thread, there is mention that Hill Helicopters will offer freebie helipad to Stoke Air Ambulance, must admit i have never heard of Stoke before. Anyhow after renewing my friendship with Google

https://stokeairambulance.org

;So its a new operation just started, nice graphics of a Leonardo AW109SP GrandNew, so I decided to have a look at their social media&l

https://stokeairambulance.org/helicopter-choice/

[[email protected]]

Yes, not exactly an ocean of aviation experience amongst their 'Team' yet they felt competent to select the helicopter - they do know wheels aren't a lot of use in muddy fields don't they? And that pretty much every modern AA suitable aircraft can start fast and cruise fast?

Nice that they photoshopped the 109 picture to make it look like it is in a field........

When they describe themselves as entrepreneurs, my alarm bells start ringing....

These guys clearly don't think Stoke needs one...

https://www.midlandsairambulance.com...air-ambulance/

[SWBKCB]

Yes, the message from the local ambulance service and hospitals is very clear!

[PPRuNeUser469990]

Oh dear, not another "childrens air ambulance" scenario?

The UK Childrens Air Ambulance - Info??

It seems like the whole UK HEMS industry is seized upon as some kind of "get rich quick" scheme.

[ShyTorque]

There are a number of holes in what I read from their website.

Notwithstanding, there seems absolutely no point in two separate charities competing to fulfil the same role in the same area. So, as someone with some experience of the role, I won’t be donating.

[PPRuNeUser469990]

But I bet the public will donate. I can't help thinking the whole UK HEMS sector is a massive swizzle on the public.

[[email protected]]

Yep, get money from the public and pay yourselves a big salary from it whilst incidentally running a helicopter.........

[Brewster Buffalo]

Charity was set up in 2015 and current working name is Helicopter Emergency Service Equipment (Previous names - Helicopter Emergency Service Equipment CIO and Stoke Air Ambulance)

Its report for 2021/22 states "During 2021 with the funds raised we spent £962.20 on Defib and medical equipment. Towards the end of this period, we started making the significant
changes within the charity and investment into what is now the main project for the charity, now known as “Stoke Air Ambulance”. In the next financial year we will be investing funds into the new project to help
deliver an Air Ambulance service which will be dedicated to Stoke On Trent and its surrounding area by the summer of 2025"

Gross Income for 2021/22 was £17,280 with expenditure of £11,110.

Looks like they have a long way to go to fund a helo.....

[Thud_and_Blunder]

..don't forget to big yourselves up by putting every flight the heli makes - including positioning, airtests etc - down on the publicity as a mission...

[500e]

Not enough oversight by charity commissioners, and just not in the Air ambulance field

[Maoraigh1]

(Posts appeared as I typed this, which I hadn't seen.)
Thread drift: Does anyone know anthing about the "Children's Air Ambulance" for which addresses in Northern Scotland have received fund raising letters with a form for bank card details?
Children's Air Ambulence, Bumpers Way, Bumpers Farm, Chippenham. SN14 6NG
and: Blue Skies House, Butlers Leap, Rugby, Warwickshire, CV21 3RQ.
​​​​​​Company reg. no.4845905. Charity reg.no.1098874.

[Northernstar]

London Air Ambulance suspension

Wonder if things have finally caught up with one of the charities. They won't be the only one if guilty.

[PPRuNeUser469990]

i expect the hems gravy train has a while to run yet, all that flashy advertising/fundraising and TV programmes will ensure the gullible public will continue to think the "heros" may have to swoop down to save them one day

[torqueshow]

Originally Posted by hargreaves99

i expect the hems gravy train has a while to run yet, all that flashy advertising/fundraising and TV programmes will ensure the gullible public will continue to think the "heros" may have to swoop down to save them one day

Are you insinuating that HEMS aircraft don’t actually perform the service they claim to provide?

[Northernstar]

Not sure that is the insinuation. Certainly those who have flown HEMS in the past would agree the job is or was very rewarding but, unlike up here in Scotland where we had and still have the ambulance service contract as primary HEMS, the charity driven model appears open to abuse as publicised by BBC Panorama with TAAS a few years ago. But is that abuse far more wide ranging and commonplace? Are there conflicts of interest? Where is the oversight? A quick search online reveals Dorset Somerset have published accounts showing vast sums of money and turnover really surprising. A level almost akin to running a UKSAR base which clearly would have far more infrastructure, assets and requirement sets.

[torqueshow]

Originally Posted by Northernstar

Not sure that is the insinuation. Certainly those who have flown HEMS in the past would agree the job is or was very rewarding but, unlike up here in Scotland where we had and still have the ambulance service contract as primary HEMS, the charity driven model appears open to abuse as publicised by BBC Panorama with TAAS a few years ago. But is that abuse far more wide ranging and commonplace? Are there conflicts of interest? Where is the oversight? A quick search online reveals Dorset Somerset have published accounts showing vast sums of money and turnover really surprising. A level almost akin to running a UKSAR base which clearly would have far more infrastructure, assets and requirement sets.

from my understanding, quite a lot of charities were in trouble a while back and fundraising changes such as running lotteries saved them from extinction. They then were capable of raising so much money and that money MUST be spent, use it or lose it, Dorset cannot hold on to all that cash. So that money got channeled into more complex aircraft, a doctor/paramedic model capable of more complex medical interventions, more expensive drugs etc. Their wealth has arguably pushed the boundaries of pre hospital medicine more so than other models.

Other than a bigger helicopter, what more requirements does a SAR base need? Needs a hangar, some fuel and some crew with a comfy place to watch bargain hunt. HEMS units are tasked far more often than SAR assets so their infrastructure requirements will be very similar.

Has it been shown to be abused in the past? Yes, the issues with TAAS were well known, perhaps that bleeds elsewhere too. As for oversight, all the aviation models are overseen by the UK CAA, thoughts on that organisation aside, the oversight and sign off to operate is the same as any other organisation.

Realistically, removing the charity side of things and how not all are created equal, it is still an operation that is vital and with absolutely no alternative (with NPAS barely able to operate as it is, the UK would never switch to a government led AA model, which isn’t proven to be better clinically elsewhere anyway).

[Thud_and_Blunder]

the UK would never switch to a government led AA model

Pretty sure Scotland is still in the UK, and the HEMS work up there is shared by the government-funded Air Ambulance and the Scottish Charity Air Ambulance. I haven't operated up there since 2015 so I don't know if both are also involved in routine/emergency hospital transfers too.

Some charities work exceptionally well - the RNLI (in my opinion) is the gold standard that we in this country should aspire to for all emergency-related services. Don't know enough about the Oz RFDS to know if it is a good exemplar too.

[torqueshow]

Originally Posted by Thud_and_Blunder

Pretty sure Scotland is still in the UK, and the HEMS work up there is shared by the government-funded Air Ambulance and the Scottish Charity Air Ambulance. I haven't operated up there since 2015 so I don't know if both are also involved in routine/emergency hospital transfers too.

Scotland is in the UK, but their NHS is a devolved power as is their AA model, not a function of the UK government.

Their SAS model didn’t cover enough of the country and the SCAA took the gaps. When I lived there and suffered an injury that would ordinarily have needed an aircraft, I was just in the wrong part of the country, this is before the SCAA.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

their NHS is a devolved power as is their AA model, not a function of the UK government

Agreed, but semantics - it might not be the UK government, but it's still a government (in this case, Scots) controlled operation. Sorry to hear about your injury; am delighted that the SCAA goes from strength to strength (had the privilege to help train the first batch of paramedics in helicopter ops, and still have the T-shirt (and the so-far unopened bottle of Famous Grouse with my name substituted on the label) to remember it by). A really good bunch of people.

[[email protected]]

Is not a significant proportion of SARs budget spent on training as opposed to taskings?

yes, the required skill set from all crew members extends way beyond landing in a field or car park and the NHS doesn't fund the medical training for the technical crew unlike with the AA/HEMS.

Ans SAR often gets to go flying when no-one else would/could.