Question: Longline Operators Canada
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
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From: Australia
Question: Longline Operators Canada
Ladies and Gents, please excuse the interruption...
I need to obtain quotes for longline delivery of scientific equipment into remote and rugged areas of Canada: both Quebec and British Columbia. Which companies would you recommend that I approach?
The load will be about 2.5 to 3 tonnes, as a single unit (not divisible), and sufficiently fragile that it won't stand a drop of more than a couple of inches or so. The mission would involve placing as many as 100 of these things about 75 meters apart, perhaps 10 minutes flying time from the nearest truck-accessible location.
Since you guys know who's who in the zoo, I thought you could help me out by suggesting the companies I should approach.
Many Thanks
I need to obtain quotes for longline delivery of scientific equipment into remote and rugged areas of Canada: both Quebec and British Columbia. Which companies would you recommend that I approach?
The load will be about 2.5 to 3 tonnes, as a single unit (not divisible), and sufficiently fragile that it won't stand a drop of more than a couple of inches or so. The mission would involve placing as many as 100 of these things about 75 meters apart, perhaps 10 minutes flying time from the nearest truck-accessible location.
Since you guys know who's who in the zoo, I thought you could help me out by suggesting the companies I should approach.
Many Thanks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Yellowhead in BC might be a good place to start, depending on what equipment they have now. If you did a search on Canada911 you would get a good selection of telephone numbers.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 206
Likes: 91
From: Canada
VIH
Hi There,
Agree with Ned!
VIH Can cover it for BC and perhaps Quebec as well (There is a 61 working there right now). If not, VIH could coordinate with another heavy lift operator for the eastern portion.
1-866-844-4354
PHONE:
(250) 656-3987
FAX:
(250) 655-6839
EMAIL:
[email protected]
Agree with Ned!
VIH Can cover it for BC and perhaps Quebec as well (There is a 61 working there right now). If not, VIH could coordinate with another heavy lift operator for the eastern portion.
VIH HELICOPTERS LTD
TOLL-FREE:1-866-844-4354
PHONE:
(250) 656-3987
FAX:
(250) 655-6839
EMAIL:
[email protected]
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 877
From: Canada
Contact Us - Helicopter Transport Services
https://www.canadianhelicopters.com/...er-operations/
Question: Over what period of time would your operations need helicopter support?
Suggestion to avoid confusion: Could you post the weights in Lbs or Kg. Whenever someone uses the term tonnes …arguments, accusations of stupidity, declarations of eternal hate, threats and abuse usually follow.
At that point someone invariably states “The proper term is Mass not Weight! Plus you have employed a semi-colon improperly!” ( If you can’t dispute the facts, attack the grammar , syntax.and punctuation )
https://www.canadianhelicopters.com/...er-operations/
Question: Over what period of time would your operations need helicopter support?
Suggestion to avoid confusion: Could you post the weights in Lbs or Kg. Whenever someone uses the term tonnes …arguments, accusations of stupidity, declarations of eternal hate, threats and abuse usually follow.
At that point someone invariably states “The proper term is Mass not Weight! Plus you have employed a semi-colon improperly!” ( If you can’t dispute the facts, attack the grammar , syntax.and punctuation )
Last edited by albatross; 23rd June 2023 at 19:21.
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 877
From: Canada
I am aware but many. are not. Especially some of our neighbours to the south who upon seeing rhe term tonnes think it is a spelling error.
Here in Canada a lot of customers still work in Lbs and seldom refer to tons. Even those that work in KG don’t speak of tonnes. They speak of Kilos.
Hence my post.
Here in Canada a lot of customers still work in Lbs and seldom refer to tons. Even those that work in KG don’t speak of tonnes. They speak of Kilos.
Hence my post.
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,562
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From: Aus
A ton is 2000lb
Weights, or more correctly masses, can get confusing. Our country has gone metric but our operator stuck to pounds as it simplified calculations, the fuel gauge measured in pounds.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 447
Likes: 30
From: Europe
Want more confusion? Where I life, one pound is 500g = 1/2 kg. Therefore a tonne is 2000 pounds. Or you may want to use "Zentner" which is in Germany 50kg and 100 kg in Switzerland and Austria (the place where no kangaroos life).
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
From: Australia
Thanks Albatross.
Estimating times is difficult: we are "hoping" that our devices will sell like hotcakes and we will need a chopper at least once a week for all eternity. The reality is that it is likely most of these things will be bought and placed in a couple of years.
Now allow me a further question, please: is this weight/mass going to present an ongoing challenge to our ability to find aircraft capable of this mission? Should we be making plans to substantially lighten the load?
See https://thefireknight.com/pages/commercial
A tonne is 1,000 kg. And it was a colon!!
Estimating times is difficult: we are "hoping" that our devices will sell like hotcakes and we will need a chopper at least once a week for all eternity. The reality is that it is likely most of these things will be bought and placed in a couple of years.
Now allow me a further question, please: is this weight/mass going to present an ongoing challenge to our ability to find aircraft capable of this mission? Should we be making plans to substantially lighten the load?
See https://thefireknight.com/pages/commercial
A tonne is 1,000 kg. And it was a colon!!
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 787
Likes: 44
From: Europe
About Quebec, there is Helicarrier with their S61 and AS332 : Helicopter Construction | HeliCarrier Inc. | Quebec | Aerial Lift
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 413
Likes: 83
From: Alberta
wish you the best of luck
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
Likes: 1
From: Australia
Thanks BK:
Our idea was that we should offer this solution to give people an option. You will appreciate that we have literally thousands of years of experience with wildfires (we call them "Bush Fires") in Australia: the Aborigines have been managing the risk by burning off for 50,000 years. Climate change is making things rapidly worse.
Australia has amongst the most benign flying conditions in the world, and yet our fire-fighting aircraft can't get there soon enough, can't operate safely in the extreme conditions, can't carry enough water. Para-dropping firefighters can become a suicide mission. Fire trucks can't get into the extremely rugged areas where these fires start. People are dying. And the bad seasons are getting worse, and closer together.
We have tested this thing: initial results are very encouraging. With more experience, we will enhance and adjust the design according to what we learn.
We're not going to save the world with this thing. But we are going to provide an option -- for people who otherwise might not have one.
At least: we're going to try, with your help.
Our idea was that we should offer this solution to give people an option. You will appreciate that we have literally thousands of years of experience with wildfires (we call them "Bush Fires") in Australia: the Aborigines have been managing the risk by burning off for 50,000 years. Climate change is making things rapidly worse.
Australia has amongst the most benign flying conditions in the world, and yet our fire-fighting aircraft can't get there soon enough, can't operate safely in the extreme conditions, can't carry enough water. Para-dropping firefighters can become a suicide mission. Fire trucks can't get into the extremely rugged areas where these fires start. People are dying. And the bad seasons are getting worse, and closer together.
We have tested this thing: initial results are very encouraging. With more experience, we will enhance and adjust the design according to what we learn.
We're not going to save the world with this thing. But we are going to provide an option -- for people who otherwise might not have one.
At least: we're going to try, with your help.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 413
Likes: 83
From: Alberta
Thanks BK:
Our idea was that we should offer this solution to give people an option. You will appreciate that we have literally thousands of years of experience with wildfires (we call them "Bush Fires") in Australia: the Aborigines have been managing the risk by burning off for 50,000 years. Climate change is making things rapidly worse.
Australia has amongst the most benign flying conditions in the world, and yet our fire-fighting aircraft can't get there soon enough, can't operate safely in the extreme conditions, can't carry enough water. Para-dropping firefighters can become a suicide mission. Fire trucks can't get into the extremely rugged areas where these fires start. People are dying. And the bad seasons are getting worse, and closer together.
We have tested this thing: initial results are very encouraging. With more experience, we will enhance and adjust the design according to what we learn.
We're not going to save the world with this thing. But we are going to provide an option -- for people who otherwise might not have one.
At least: we're going to try, with your help.
Our idea was that we should offer this solution to give people an option. You will appreciate that we have literally thousands of years of experience with wildfires (we call them "Bush Fires") in Australia: the Aborigines have been managing the risk by burning off for 50,000 years. Climate change is making things rapidly worse.
Australia has amongst the most benign flying conditions in the world, and yet our fire-fighting aircraft can't get there soon enough, can't operate safely in the extreme conditions, can't carry enough water. Para-dropping firefighters can become a suicide mission. Fire trucks can't get into the extremely rugged areas where these fires start. People are dying. And the bad seasons are getting worse, and closer together.
We have tested this thing: initial results are very encouraging. With more experience, we will enhance and adjust the design according to what we learn.
We're not going to save the world with this thing. But we are going to provide an option -- for people who otherwise might not have one.
At least: we're going to try, with your help.
Food for though Canada and Australia are too very different countries terrain wise. According to your website your device has a limited range of 30 meters. Almost all of out forested areas have trees and brush every 1 to 2 meters. Where I see your device being useful would be for individuals that have acreage or homesteads in the middle of forested areas. They could be used as a fire break around the property's. This would also depend on cost of the units.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 8
From: australia
When I went to school, 1950’s, a ton was 2240 pounds or 20 cwt (hundredweight) When we went metric, a tonne was, and is, 1000 kg, near enough to 2200 pounds. Difference between a ton and a tonne not much.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
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From: Australia
Again, thanks BK :-)
You raise an important point that our design and engineering team is actively working on.
We are recommending that a customer engage a suitably qualified Fire Engineer (or we can supply one) to assist with defining the placement sites for the units. An experienced forest fire person will be able to predict the likely approach paths of wildfires quite accurately. We are not expecting to need a complete "line" of units: in most cases probably a semi-circle of units covering the most likely approach path will massively reduce the risk of structure loss.
What is not mentioned on the website is that each device is equipped with an ultrasonic "obstruction sensor" (basically similar to the reversing sensor some cars have). Its original purpose was to sound an alarm to scare off beasties who have decided to use the system as a convenient scratching post, and vandals who want to use it for target practice... But there is an idea to use this sensor to modify the spraying pattern to avoid trees and bushes.
The 30 meters comes from the range of the spray heads we are using. We could increase this range, but that would involve upgrading several internal components and may not be cost-effective.
If you care to PM me your contact details, I can get Our Man in Canada on the phone to you: he's as old and grumpy as you and I, and it sounds like we would benefit from your input
You raise an important point that our design and engineering team is actively working on.
We are recommending that a customer engage a suitably qualified Fire Engineer (or we can supply one) to assist with defining the placement sites for the units. An experienced forest fire person will be able to predict the likely approach paths of wildfires quite accurately. We are not expecting to need a complete "line" of units: in most cases probably a semi-circle of units covering the most likely approach path will massively reduce the risk of structure loss.
What is not mentioned on the website is that each device is equipped with an ultrasonic "obstruction sensor" (basically similar to the reversing sensor some cars have). Its original purpose was to sound an alarm to scare off beasties who have decided to use the system as a convenient scratching post, and vandals who want to use it for target practice... But there is an idea to use this sensor to modify the spraying pattern to avoid trees and bushes.
The 30 meters comes from the range of the spray heads we are using. We could increase this range, but that would involve upgrading several internal components and may not be cost-effective.
If you care to PM me your contact details, I can get Our Man in Canada on the phone to you: he's as old and grumpy as you and I, and it sounds like we would benefit from your input
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 206
Likes: 91
From: Canada
So its a large robot smart sprinkler?
The trouble with this being useful is that it would be very expensive. Generally where there is a structure to protect there is a road to that structure. No need to heli in these things.
Where structures are inaccessible by road there is good reason. It would be steep terrain, likely very remote. These devices would simply roll down the hill/mountain.
One thing I could see these working for is Pipeline pump and valve locations. Again, generally accesable by truck.
Having them be so heavy is a major concern. There are many helicopters all over the place in Canada that can lift around 2-3500 pounds. Above that and the list of operators gets much smaller.
The trouble with this being useful is that it would be very expensive. Generally where there is a structure to protect there is a road to that structure. No need to heli in these things.
Where structures are inaccessible by road there is good reason. It would be steep terrain, likely very remote. These devices would simply roll down the hill/mountain.
One thing I could see these working for is Pipeline pump and valve locations. Again, generally accesable by truck.
Having them be so heavy is a major concern. There are many helicopters all over the place in Canada that can lift around 2-3500 pounds. Above that and the list of operators gets much smaller.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 491
Likes: 3
From: Iceland
I would check Coldstream helicopters, I've only heard positive about the company. They got L1 super puma's firecats that can lift up to 4000kg https://www.coldstreamhelicopters.co...-4LJf-5MnxLg0o
