CAA Permit to Fly question

[hargreaves99]

Most Wasps, Scouts, Gazelles on the G-reg are operating under 'Permit to Fly'

I understand one of the conditions of this is they are only allowed to carry "flight crew", ie pilots and engineers

Can someone tell me how all these aircraft are allowed to be carrying passengers? I am not talking about fare-paying passengers, just private flights with friends etc

(CAP 733 on the CAA website is not available)

[212man]

Originally Posted by hargreaves99

Most Wasps, Scouts, Gazelles on the G-reg are operating under 'Permit to Fly'

I understand one of the conditions of this is they are only allowed to carry "flight crew", ie pilots and engineers

Can someone tell me how all these aircraft are allowed to be carrying passengers? I am not talking about fare-paying passengers, just private flights with friends etc

(CAP 733 on the CAA website is not available)

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP733.PDF.

it is available. A quick scan on my phone doesn’t show a pax restriction, other than the permit may specify the max number that can be carried.

[hargreaves99]

I can't get that link to work in any browser

???

link from this page doesn't work either

https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-ind...ermits-to-fly/

[212man]

Originally Posted by hargreaves99

I can't get that link to work in any browser

???

link from this page doesn't work either

https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-ind...ermits-to-fly/

I’m just using Safari on my phone……

Limitations of use of a Permit to Fly aircraft
In recognition of the lack of compliance with some of the standards of airworthiness, the issue and continued validity of a Permit to Fly will reflect the limitations under which an aircraft is permitted to operate, and will normally be more restrictive than the operating conditions permitted in the case of a comparable aircraft operating on a Certificate of Airworthiness. The limitations are as follows:
a) Flights will normally be restricted to day Visual Flight Rules (VFR) only.
b) Limitations may be placed upon the numbers of persons permitted to be carried in the aircraft, either in general, or in specific operational circumstances.
c) Aircraft will be required to be placarded showing operating limitations and conditions.
d) Aircraft will normally be restricted to flights within UK airspace unless the prior agreement of the country in which the flights are to be made is obtained.
e) Aircraft will not normally be permitted to fly over congested areas.

.

[hargreaves99]

OK, thanks, I see it now. I guess extra restrictions are placed on certain aircraft types, or individual aircraft maybe?

[Helicopterdriverguy]

When the ex mil gazelles were first allowed to fly on permit that was the rule it’s now in line with other permit rules 4 POB

[MightyGem]

I understand one of the conditions of this is they are only allowed to carry "flight crew", ie pilots and engineers

That was certainly the case many years ago, certainly for ex military aircraft. Which is why Nick Grace said "No" when I asked for a ride in his Spitfire at a Middle Wallop airshow back in the 80s .

I'm not sure when it changed, but I finally got my ride in his aircraft a few years ago. ​​​​​​​

This is from "Operation of Permit-to-Fly Ex-Military aircraft on the UK register(2021)"
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP632_E8_A2.pdf

Carriage of passengers

1. 5.30 The Chief Pilot shall consider pilot experience levels before permitting pilots to fly with passengers. When passengers are carried, the Pilot-in- Command or appropriately trained person must deliver a suitable passenger briefing covering all aspects of flight including the use of safety equipment. The passenger briefing should include a statement that the aircraft operates on a Permit-to-Fly and is not certified to an internationally recognised standard.
   
2. 5.31 When passengers are carried the operator shall maintain a record of the passenger’s name, address and next of kin details.
   

[hargreaves99]

CAP 632 only applies for MTOW > 2730 kg. The Wasp/Scout are under this weight.