Jervis Bay helicopter crash
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: not where I want to be
Somewhat more useful than the ABC's video at least, that was a waste of bandwidth from which I learnt nothing...
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Land of the Angles
An accountant!!!
You are such a Dag ozbiggles.
If you are looking for a gun fight, then I’m afraid you are pointing your pistol at the wrong fella, as I merely highlighted the managed risk the USN has for its Sea Hawk crews egress in the event of a survivable entry into water.
The USN is by a mile, the world’s largest operator of the Sea Hawk and has been for well over 30 years now, and from their own experience, they considered that rather than giving the crews a little extra time, the EFS set-up on the SH-60B Sea Hawk was more likely to impede egress, rather than assist, as such the EFS system was subsequently removed, so the USN looked at other methods to preserve life, regular HUET training being one of them.
If you don’t agree with their risk management assessment after close to 40 years of operating the Sea Hawk, that’s your prerogative, but don’t shoot the bookkeeper.
You are such a Dag ozbiggles.
If you are looking for a gun fight, then I’m afraid you are pointing your pistol at the wrong fella, as I merely highlighted the managed risk the USN has for its Sea Hawk crews egress in the event of a survivable entry into water.
The USN is by a mile, the world’s largest operator of the Sea Hawk and has been for well over 30 years now, and from their own experience, they considered that rather than giving the crews a little extra time, the EFS set-up on the SH-60B Sea Hawk was more likely to impede egress, rather than assist, as such the EFS system was subsequently removed, so the USN looked at other methods to preserve life, regular HUET training being one of them.
If you don’t agree with their risk management assessment after close to 40 years of operating the Sea Hawk, that’s your prerogative, but don’t shoot the bookkeeper.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Originally Posted by [email protected]
If you want to operate over the water, heavy and below MinSELF - having floats is a no-brainer. MCT Ops certainly fit that profile.
Hoping it won't happen is not risk-mitigation.
Hoping it won't happen is not risk-mitigation.
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 636
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From: australia
The nh90 and Australia
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/du...l-but-why-now/
The MRH-90 has been costing $35,000 per hour to operate. Last financial year that ballooned to $50,000 and it was probably the final straw.
Last edited by golder; 25th March 2023 at 11:38.
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: Aus
Heck you may end up in the local sewage settling pond
Wessex had a unofficial procedure re popping the floats, last man out stuck his knife in.
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Australia
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...licopter-crash
This is what happens when accountants do risk management.
This is what happens when accountants do risk management.
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
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From: Canada
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
So not fit for purpose for over water ops then?
With AAR kit the USAF conducts very long range SAR Ops using the 60.
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Derby
So not fit for purpose for over water ops then?
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Gerloz
I still remember the HUET course I did in HMS Dolphin in the early eighties. The exciting wet bits were preceded by a seemingly endless briefing going into great detail about exactly how we would die in every helicopter in NATO's inventory. One highlight was how fast the Lynx would sink. ISTR the lecturer talking about 'sinking trials' of a Lynx in a Scottish loch with divers aboard. Under certain conditions it sank so fast the divers could not physically extract themselves from their seats.
Not a Scottish Loch per se. A tank at Glen Fruin near Faslane. Now derelict. And indeed your lecturers spoke the truth. Once that forward compartment filled up with water the thing sank like a rock, floats or no. STAS was ( and is) a great bit of kit…draconian briefs aside.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Aus
Why didn’t he put it on the ground?
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: uk
Having flown other helicopters with fixed floats I would prefer doing an autorotation (take that was the case here) to "water" rather than the ground so that would be my guess as well.
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Den Haag
Not a Scottish Loch per se. A tank at Glen Fruin near Faslane. Now derelict. And indeed your lecturers spoke the truth. Once that forward compartment filled up with water the thing sank like a rock, floats or no. STAS was ( and is) a great bit of kit…draconian briefs aside.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
I suspect 60 on the long range SAR jobs gets to the casualty with a low enough fuel state to hover OEI, AAR on the way home and mitigates the risks that way - not so much of an option on MCT Ops.
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
Crab.....you have any accident stats to support your opinion or is it. just 60 envy that prompts your comment?
How many instances of Emergency Float systems not working as advertised and to what sea state are they rated?
Modern day engines are pretty reliable and most modern helicopters do pretty well. on one engine at sea level.
Perhaps hovering over an Alpine Lake in the heat of Summer might offer a problem for an OGE hover.
If I had a four engined. helicopter that would hover on one....I might still want a fifth just for insurance.
Sometimes you do have to trust the Engineeers and Safety Mafia when they offer decisions made upon the Laws of Probability as there is. no perfect helicopter yet to be invented.
Look back the the USAF H-3 Jolly Greens and what they did using AAR while doing Combat SAR missions....and later with the CH-53's.
As always in aviation....there is a certain amount of risk in everything we do.....and never is there zero risk even if the aircraft never leaves the ground.
How many instances of Emergency Float systems not working as advertised and to what sea state are they rated?
Modern day engines are pretty reliable and most modern helicopters do pretty well. on one engine at sea level.
Perhaps hovering over an Alpine Lake in the heat of Summer might offer a problem for an OGE hover.
If I had a four engined. helicopter that would hover on one....I might still want a fifth just for insurance.
Sometimes you do have to trust the Engineeers and Safety Mafia when they offer decisions made upon the Laws of Probability as there is. no perfect helicopter yet to be invented.
Look back the the USAF H-3 Jolly Greens and what they did using AAR while doing Combat SAR missions....and later with the CH-53's.
As always in aviation....there is a certain amount of risk in everything we do.....and never is there zero risk even if the aircraft never leaves the ground.
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Sydney