AW139 incident - Houma
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
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From: Pensacola, Florida
Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,373
Likes: 930
From: Den Haag
Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=105994
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 879
From: Canada
Constructing the darn collective control tube of carbon fibre is perhaps not the best choice.
However what would have happened if the tube was constructed of aluminium…massive short, gen1, Gen 2 CB pop?
Of course the whole thing could have been avoided with proper quality control during the construction process.
Just curious…am. I correct in thinking that the collective was no longer moving the swash plate or having any effect whatsoever on power at all. The collective position was caused by twisting of the burnt carbon fibre control rod. There was no way for the crew to know that, hence the strenuous efforts to lower it.
However what would have happened if the tube was constructed of aluminium…massive short, gen1, Gen 2 CB pop?
Of course the whole thing could have been avoided with proper quality control during the construction process.
Just curious…am. I correct in thinking that the collective was no longer moving the swash plate or having any effect whatsoever on power at all. The collective position was caused by twisting of the burnt carbon fibre control rod. There was no way for the crew to know that, hence the strenuous efforts to lower it.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.
....
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,373
Likes: 930
From: Den Haag
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yes, they forgot the 20/20 hindsight section in the QRH...................................
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Wanaka, NZ
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 379
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From: canada
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,563
Likes: 952
From: Aus
gulli, there's always a limit to everything, but a 76 will survive undamaged a landing that causes the inertia reels to lock and the ELT to begin transmitting.
My longer stroke oleo comment was merely reference to the dissipation of energy, have recently been reading of the taming of a carrier based aircraft and its propensity to bounce on landing causing grave issues. Alteration of shock strut air pressure, metering valve, stroke and tyre pressure all get a mention.
My longer stroke oleo comment was merely reference to the dissipation of energy, have recently been reading of the taming of a carrier based aircraft and its propensity to bounce on landing causing grave issues. Alteration of shock strut air pressure, metering valve, stroke and tyre pressure all get a mention.
