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2022-03-05: Derriford Hospital: Woman dies in helicopter landing incident

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2022-03-05: Derriford Hospital: Woman dies in helicopter landing incident

Old 3rd Nov 2023, 12:00
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SimonPaddo
That happened last year, there was an update the other day on the findings of the investigation.
Very sad outcome. Downwash can easily catch out those familiar with it.
I watched a Bond Helicopters pilot standing by the tail of a u/s BO 105 blown onto the catch net around the helideck in the Viking Field as a 365C came in to land.
70 foot drop straight into the North Sea in February. Very lucky not to go over..
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Old 3rd Nov 2023, 12:09
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Yes, many thanks to all above, that's answered the question comprehensively!

I didn't spot the date on the article; the link to it appeared when I opened up the BBC Home page this morning.
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Old 3rd Nov 2023, 16:18
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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The operator had been flying out of Newquay with Sikorsky S-92A helicopters (S92) in the SAR role since 1 January 2016. Prior to this, SAR flights around the UK were operated by the military
​​​​​​​I think the author could do with a history lesson!
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 01:14
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ericferret;11532509[b
]Very sad outcome. Downwash can easily catch out those familiar with it.[/b]
I watched a Bond Helicopters pilot standing by the tail of a u/s BO 105 blown onto the catch net around the helideck in the Viking Field as a 365C came in to land.
70 foot drop straight into the North Sea in February. Very lucky not to go over..
To me this seems to be an astonishing attempt to minimise the events . Why are there no comments such as :

" Appalling lack of professional sfaeguards "
"Neither hospital nor flying bodies taking responsibility "
"Solping shoulders evident eveywhere "
"This danger prevalent throughout the UK because of inadequate regulation "
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 01:23
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man
I think the author could do with a history lesson!
There seems to be a general feeling that AAIB are wonderful, but my experience of a few AAIB reports on helicopter accidents is that they are sometimes quite flawed and undeserving of such respect. The same applies to AAIB reports on my other area of knowledge - glider accidents. Perhaps AAIB are wonderful when it comes to their day job of fixed wing powered aircraft accident reports, but I remain a bit sceptical.
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 08:42
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Prior to this, SAR flights around the UK were operated by the military
Prior to this, most SAR flights around the UK were operated by the military

There, fixed​​​​​​​
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 10:16
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ericferret
Very sad outcome. Downwash can easily catch out those familiar with it.
I watched a Bond Helicopters pilot standing by the tail of a u/s BO 105 blown onto the catch net around the helideck in the Viking Field as a 365C came in to land.
70 foot drop straight into the North Sea in February. Very lucky not to go over..
wow 😧🫣 yeah downwash is not something to mess about with !!
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 12:16
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Only just noticed this and, particularly the references to Southampton. Back in the day, we were tasked for a patient transfer from the IoW to Southampton Chest Hospital. We didn't have the site details so queried with them and were told that the helipad was on a golf course and the plods etc. would be there with blues on. Arrived in general area over a golf course with no sighting, so we put down near the clubhouse and I went in to do a 999 query. Got directions and eventually spotted the plod lights ... sitting alongside a CLOCK golf patch !!... thankfully, Whirlwind acceptable !
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Old 4th Nov 2023, 16:52
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Search for city hospital Truro helipad, we used to land the Bolkow there for serious cases back in the late 80ísÖ..
Postage stamp in a built up area, risk assessment not invented back then 🤭
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Old 5th Nov 2023, 10:53
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Originally Posted by 212man
Thatís great. Go and kill as many members of the public as you like and nobody worked out it might be an issue!
Because there wasn't an issue - small HLS but small helicopter with relatively low downwash. It's only since we started using ever bigger helicopters that there has been a problem.

Take Derriford for example, it used to have a small pad right next to the hospital but we had to land in the Sea King at what was Plymouth airport because of the weight loading limits and the downwash.

Swansea Morriston has a big pad but it is built over a car park with pedestrians often milling around. Decent security can alleviate most issues but how many hospitals have 24-7 staff available for that?
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Old 5th Nov 2023, 12:45
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
To me this seems to be an astonishing attempt to minimise the events . Why are there no comments such as :

" Appalling lack of professional sfaeguards "
"Neither hospital nor flying bodies taking responsibility "
"Solping shoulders evident eveywhere "
"This danger prevalent throughout the UK because of inadequate regulation "
There are no judgemental comments such as those you suggest because the AAIB's remit is to delve into the factual aspects of what happened, rather than to apportion blame. Blame is the remit of the Coroner and/or Police/HSE investigation.s
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Old 5th Nov 2023, 17:57
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I agree with others that this seems to be a weak report.

It was a fatal accident, involving a member of the public who was minding their own business!

But to be fair, the full report is a lot better than the summary.

But it's Safety Recommendations are all about reviewing this and that, rather than mandating any changes.

So it recommends :

"It is recommended that NHS England Estates review all existing hospital helicopter landing sites for which it has responsibility against the latest guidance and instigate appropriate actions to minimise the risk of injury from downwash to uninvolved persons."

"It is recommended that the UK Civil Aviation Authority, in conjunction with the Onshore Safety Leadership Group and the relevant NHS organisations in the UK, develop and promulgate enhanced risk management guidance for hospital helicopter landing sites, and provide information on the range and use of potential mitigations for the protection of uninvolved persons from helicopter downwash."

etc, etc.

But a Review could just be a 10 minutes exercise by anybody. And "Minimise Risk" is subjective.

It would be stronger to say that there should be established Safety Zones around all Hospital Helipads, of X meters diameter, and wardens should ensure that the public are excluded during heli ops, etc.

IB
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Old 5th Nov 2023, 18:36
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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NHS Estates simply has not got anyone with the knowledge or skills on site to make an assessment
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Old 6th Nov 2023, 09:43
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
NHS Estates simply has not got anyone with the knowledge or skills on site to make an assessment
They could give me a job to do that
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Old 6th Nov 2023, 12:40
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
NHS Estates simply has not got anyone with the knowledge or skills on site to make an assessment
As Crab says - a pretty simple solution exists - plenty of companies out there capable of providing the assessment. The key thing is identifying that you don't have the knowledge or skills in the first place, then making the leap to getting someone in who does.
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Old 6th Nov 2023, 22:05
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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This is more than a middle management matter involving rewriting a couple of policies that will be filed and never seen again. It is a top level matter about resources and how safe we want our country to be.

Around here, air ambulance flying started in about 1931. 705 Sqn FAA forever stamped the helicopter as tool for saving lives into the imagination of the British people on 31st January 1953. RAF SAR helicopters started operating from RMB Chivenor in 1956. FAA dedicated SAR helicopters started operating from RNAS Culdrose in 1974. Helicopter SAR ops were normal in the district when the current Derriford Hospital site was opened in 1981. Cornwall Air Ambulance started operations in 1987.

Just how stupid do you have to be to stick your head in the sand and imagine that aviation and emergency medicine will not be inextricably linked forever?

NHS management stupid.

Local authority stupid.

Government minister stupid.

We need to stop giving important jobs to stupid people.
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