NPAS News 2022
Avoid imitations
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They can fly in cloud, too.
They certainly can - but, it doesn't matter how clever your "Fully IFR & FIKI" platform is - be it rotary or fixed wing, it's purpose is to transport the camera pod, TFO's and radios to the scene of an incident.
If, when it gets there, said camera and TFO's cannot see the ground because of cloud/fog then they are bringing nothing useful to the party.
If, when it gets there, said camera and TFO's cannot see the ground because of cloud/fog then they are bringing nothing useful to the party.
Avoid imitations
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Fortyodd2,
Yes, exactly. Hence the PR bumph initially put out by NPAS about how much better a fixed wing was going to be "because it could fly in worse weather" was nonsense of the first degree.
Yes, exactly. Hence the PR bumph initially put out by NPAS about how much better a fixed wing was going to be "because it could fly in worse weather" was nonsense of the first degree.
Agreed. Unless your Force heli exists primarily as a means to transport the Chief Constable around, and you need your pilots to turn down operational tasking to keep their IRs current, then a police helicopter in cloud is just a helicopter. I wonder which Force I could be thinking of...
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Agreed. Unless your Force heli exists primarily as a means to transport the Chief Constable around, and you need your pilots to turn down operational tasking to keep their IRs current, then a police helicopter in cloud is just a helicopter. I wonder which Force I could be thinking of...
Avoid imitations
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No different to an IFR equipped helicopter.
But VFR rules for rotary wing are less stringent than for fixed wing. So some marginal weather jobs that cannot be completed under VFR by a fixed wing could be done by a helicopter.
But VFR rules for rotary wing are less stringent than for fixed wing. So some marginal weather jobs that cannot be completed under VFR by a fixed wing could be done by a helicopter.
southwest lad, I've used IR variously with police helis (way up north), Air Ambulance (including a HEMS task from the Pennines to ILS minima at Blackpool) and a particular utility operation in all the circumstances you have described, as well as positioning for/ recovering from training and moving the Chief Exec and team around on the annual brief-and-talk-to-the-workforce rounds. My thinly-disguised gripe was with a particular force - one which despite its large area had among the lowest operational hours per year among UK police helis - and it's, er, sub-optimal approach to operational use of a very valuable force asset.
If you're referring to one with the force HQ right next to the only Motorway in the region, but whose traffic units (remember those?) did not employ a protocol for heli-control of pursuits because they knew it would never be available, then yes, it was.
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“On paper” (!), maybe but bearing in mind that these aircraft have no “facilities”, how long can the crews hold out?
800 miles in 8 hours…..so they now cruise at only 100 knots? What happened to the business case claims that they were much faster than the helicopters they were to replace?
800 miles in 8 hours…..so they now cruise at only 100 knots? What happened to the business case claims that they were much faster than the helicopters they were to replace?
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And I also suggest you read the forum rules.
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I wonder how many posts there’d be here regarding police fixed wing flying, if only those with relevant first hand experience were invited to make pronouncements? How typical of police aviation. Strong opinions based on little first hand knowledge. All part of the problem.
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Reading this thread always leaves me with the impression that is full of a bunch of whinging misfits. Police aviation is about protecting the public. Catching scrotes or finding misters etc. the ****e talked about IFR and the benefits it offers to police ops is dangerous. Having spent a fair chunk of time flying VFR and IFR I would state that if you are not in very regular practice in either discipline you will struggle. Converting VFR to IFR on an op like police and EMS is fraught with risks and probably scuppers the very urgency required of the task. Converting IFR to VFR…..best done during an IAP, or above MSA (so why not remain VFR).
in my day we got airborne as fast as possible, gripped and ripped it to the task with the ground in plain sight. You can’t catch a scrote in a cloud. Giving a police pilot who’s normal role is VFR and IR is like handing a loaded gun to………….an actor! Eventually he will try to use it.
in my day we got airborne as fast as possible, gripped and ripped it to the task with the ground in plain sight. You can’t catch a scrote in a cloud. Giving a police pilot who’s normal role is VFR and IR is like handing a loaded gun to………….an actor! Eventually he will try to use it.
Double Bogey the fixed wing (sorry I know this is Rotorheads) fixation with IFR was all about delivering the service from a clear air base (VFR) to a clear air area of need (VFR) through mucky weather (IFR) but somewhere along the way the basics got lost. That police air support is not a IFR task at the point of delivery is a long held truth but when you are trying to sell it to get the £10M funding four aircraft from people who do not understand such things the truth may get a little bent. In this case it most certainly did.
The world can stand aghast at what arguments will next be put forward to fund the use of [rotary] BVLOS drones. That will be a real loaded gun because no one will perceive that getting it wrong will kill people.
The world can stand aghast at what arguments will next be put forward to fund the use of [rotary] BVLOS drones. That will be a real loaded gun because no one will perceive that getting it wrong will kill people.
Thread Starter
Any news on who will becoming the new lead force for NPAS?
It's all a bit quiet at the moment from NPAS HQ... apart from the boring BVLOS Drones Tender, there has been no meeting minutes uploaded by NPAS for 2022.
Still no information how the aeroplanes are going to be deployed nationally.... will all aircraft still be stationed at DSA? forwarded to operate from bases across E&W? New permanent bases for these to operate from?
Then there's a fleet replacement that has been in the works since like 2016? Oh? No news on that either!!
I know this post seems like I'm having a big old rant, but emergency aviation in GB doesn't have the same exciting feeling as it used to.
It's all a bit quiet at the moment from NPAS HQ... apart from the boring BVLOS Drones Tender, there has been no meeting minutes uploaded by NPAS for 2022.
Still no information how the aeroplanes are going to be deployed nationally.... will all aircraft still be stationed at DSA? forwarded to operate from bases across E&W? New permanent bases for these to operate from?
Then there's a fleet replacement that has been in the works since like 2016? Oh? No news on that either!!
I know this post seems like I'm having a big old rant, but emergency aviation in GB doesn't have the same exciting feeling as it used to.
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The governments initial proposals into setting up NPAS thought that BTP would be the ideal organisation to run NPAS.
Part of the NPCC archives regarding the formation of NPAS shown below. Its shown on the internet.
BTP would save money paying for their own rail patrols if they took over. Will the Home Office offer them more money to run NPAS?
"6.5 British Transport Police (BTP) are one of the very few organisations that have national control rooms. Discussions are therefore ongoing with BTP to establish whether they are able to host the NPAS dispatch facility."
Part of the NPCC archives regarding the formation of NPAS shown below. Its shown on the internet.
BTP would save money paying for their own rail patrols if they took over. Will the Home Office offer them more money to run NPAS?
"6.5 British Transport Police (BTP) are one of the very few organisations that have national control rooms. Discussions are therefore ongoing with BTP to establish whether they are able to host the NPAS dispatch facility."
Early in May an associate contacted the West Yorkshire Combined Authority for a comment on the position relating to the leadership of the National Police Air Service. The reply on progress was simply a stall statement.
With a month to go it is not going to happen within the stated year. The two forces likely to do anything about it have their own problems with a chief constable retiring, a major event to plan and there being no commissioner in London. If nothing else they will be months off a 'yes' and why would they ever say yes?
Meanwhile, the failed organisation, NPAS remains wholly in charge of all that is manned and those that do not have air support, and it is not everyone of course, are finding that most of their day-to-day air support needs can be met by drones in their own control.
I would suppose that the biggest danger by far to the future is that someone proposes that NPAS gets into some sort of national drone operation and complete destroys that too.
And of course they have said that they want to get into drones. Fortunately perhaps they have been saying just that since at least 2017 and have not yet managed anything that was not provided by others.
Its all down to weak management of course, not in West Yorkshire they are as bolshy as ever, it is elsewhere. The Home Office is massively distracted by Migrants and key staff are probably more interested in getting the children to the zoo whilst working from home and when it comes to oversight of each other the NPCC are simply not keen at shouting "wos going on?" or stabbing each other in the back just in case it effects their mental health profile. I got further bad news for them, it seems that Ibuprofen is now deemed bad for you.
With a month to go it is not going to happen within the stated year. The two forces likely to do anything about it have their own problems with a chief constable retiring, a major event to plan and there being no commissioner in London. If nothing else they will be months off a 'yes' and why would they ever say yes?
Meanwhile, the failed organisation, NPAS remains wholly in charge of all that is manned and those that do not have air support, and it is not everyone of course, are finding that most of their day-to-day air support needs can be met by drones in their own control.
I would suppose that the biggest danger by far to the future is that someone proposes that NPAS gets into some sort of national drone operation and complete destroys that too.
And of course they have said that they want to get into drones. Fortunately perhaps they have been saying just that since at least 2017 and have not yet managed anything that was not provided by others.
Its all down to weak management of course, not in West Yorkshire they are as bolshy as ever, it is elsewhere. The Home Office is massively distracted by Migrants and key staff are probably more interested in getting the children to the zoo whilst working from home and when it comes to oversight of each other the NPCC are simply not keen at shouting "wos going on?" or stabbing each other in the back just in case it effects their mental health profile. I got further bad news for them, it seems that Ibuprofen is now deemed bad for you.