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Longline rescue - Mt Cook Summit

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Longline rescue - Mt Cook Summit

Old 13th Nov 2021, 18:06
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by rottenjohn View Post
um, where’s the kiwi ingenuity? Done all over the world. What would be the point in nvg, IR, auto pilot etc so hardly relevant.
The point of the bells and whistles is to be able to carry out said rescue(s) in all weather and any time of day/night. Good luck doing that with any relative safety in a VFR single with a longline.

The single engine, day vfr longline ships have their place, but they are severely limited for anything other than the type of rescue performed here.
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Old 13th Nov 2021, 19:45
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Well being picked up off a very hard climb above The Mer de Grace ( climbing partner took a big lead fall and broke his ankle as he caught his Koflach on the ledge I was belaying from as he cam past ) got me into helicopter flying. Mind you it cost £ 2500 and that was 40 years ago in an Alouette 3 but that is The French for you
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Old 13th Nov 2021, 21:36
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
The point of the bells and whistles is to be able to carry out said rescue(s) in all weather and any time of day/night. Good luck doing that with any relative safety in a VFR single with a longline.

The single engine, day vfr longline ships have their place, but they are severely limited for anything other than the type of rescue performed here.
there is no such thing as being able to carry out rescues in all weather at anytime day or night.
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Old 13th Nov 2021, 23:04
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rottenjohn View Post
there is no such thing as being able to carry out rescues in all weather at anytime day or night.
No s*it. But there’s often a non vmc conditions between where the helicopter obviously originates and where the scene is.

guess we are simply at an impasse as the time and place and right tool for the job at hand.

It doesn’t hurt to have a tool in your garage that works for 50% of scenarios.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 04:27
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: australia
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
No s*it. But there’s often a non vmc conditions between where the helicopter obviously originates and where the scene is.

guess we are simply at an impasse as the time and place and right tool for the job at hand.

It doesn’t hurt to have a tool in your garage that works for 50% of scenarios.
no s*hit, but knowing that area very well, it’s not a dedicated service. No one is going to fund all your “tools”. The helicopter is based within 10 minutes flying.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 15:36
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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So as long as you don't need rescuing in the dark or in bad weather you'll be absolutely fine..........
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Old 16th Nov 2021, 21:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
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Extra grunt and bells and whistles can definitely improve your comfort zone, but, occasionally, just basic ingenuity is what's needed ...
Master Pilot Ron P*** and crew in a piston Whirlwind taking an overload off the Goodwin Sands by doing the last pickup 'on the run', for example The best S&R 'training' is done on 'ops' !
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Old 17th Nov 2021, 20:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: I am not sure where we are, but at least it is getting dark
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Originally Posted by Nightstop View Post
I hope the climber gets sent the bill. It’s similar to a sail boat Skipper requesting a tow into a Marina because his engine has failed. You partake in these amateur hobbies, you accept the consequences imho.
This thought is as old as the profession of SAR itself. And it has been tried, to charge the subjects that is. The problem is that it ends up costing society far more, than to bear the cost of the occasional rescue. If a person (climber, hiker, lost Mountainbiker etc) knows that it'll cost them half their salary to dial 911, they won't dial until the last second or at all. At which point the rescue will usually have become far more complicated and costly, or turn into a body recovery, which is often many times more expensive than a simple helo pickup, all things considered. This isn't something I dreamed up, this was the response i received from a senior team leader of a local SAR organisation, after i asked the same question (we had just spent a day in an AS350, looking for some geniuses that were lost in a river canyon without even a pair of shoes).

Point is, yes it costs money to pick up some.. less smart, or plain unfortunate people, but it's still the best option there is. No, being charged for rescues has been shown to NOT be an effective deterrence for dangerous behavior, as nobody thinks it will happen to them anyway. Nobody goes out thinking they may come back on a winch, especially not those daredevils, like the base jumpers that are usually mentioned here.

Lastly, if we want to reduce the burden on society creates by unnecessary health care cost, we would have to first charge anyone who participates in team sports like football, or the other football (which are incredibly injury prone in general), and of course anyone who consumes chips and beer, because those associated costs are many, many orders of magnitude higher than those of an occasional hiker extraction. The rescue in that video may have cost some five figure sum, and will still be "cheaper" than what someone's self inflicted Diabetes costs "us" every month. We can then also point out that someone who climbs mountains for entertainment is far less likely to suffer these other conditions... At the latest at this point, the proposal usually loses public support.
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 06:19
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Good post lelebebbel
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 08:15
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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In Un Zud there is the Accident Compensation Corporation that covers everyone in the country - even tourists and visitors. (Not that there are many there at the moment).

As there are so many "adventure sports" ACC covers basically everybody and removes the right to sue. Tort reform.

ACC is the sole and compulsory provider of accident insurance in New Zealand for all work and non-work related injuries. The corporation administers the ACC Scheme on a no-fault basis, so that anyone, regardless of the way in which they suffered an injury, has coverage under the scheme. Due to the scheme's no-fault basis, people who have suffered personal injury do not have the right to sue an at-fault party, except for exemplary damages
Kind of the complete opposite to the USA.

Is it a "good idea"? Maybe, but it is what it is. ACCNZ
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 00:11
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 172
The NZ ACC scheme has one pleasing effect - children’s playgrounds are a lot more fun than those here in Oz. Councils here are so risk averse because of the insurance premiums they must pay that all the dangerous but fun stuff has been removed. Can’t sue in NZ so no problem! Same explanation for the many dangerous activities for adults in the land of the long white cloud.
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