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Fly The Aircraft...Never Give Up!

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Fly The Aircraft...Never Give Up!

Old 19th Jul 2021, 18:15
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
When I was instructing at RAF Shawbury in the early 90's, we had a visit from a very pretty young lady who had been a passenger in a 2-seat Harrier a couple of years before - they had had an emergency and ejected but she drifted back down into the burning wreckage.

Her lifejacket wasn't fire proof and she wasn't wearing a cotton layer underneath her flying suit - she was gracious enough to show some of the scarring and it convinced me to always wear a cotton layer under my flying suit and also to wear gloves when flying.
Absolutely.
When I was at South Cerney on ITS one of our instructors, Melaniphy (?) always had long sleeves even on hot days.

When asked why, he showed us the arm burns he had suffered , trapped on a burning Hunter.

Always, but always, he said, keep your flying overall arms fully down and DO wear you flying gloves.

Never forgot that, even on a boiling day starting or after landing my Canberra which could get VERY hot in bright sunshine.
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Old 20th Jul 2021, 13:40
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I always put a cotton jacket on to refuel my car, having seen a flash fire in my past I cannot believe people fill up their cars in hot weather wearing nothing but a skimpy tee shirt
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Old 20th Jul 2021, 15:25
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
When I was instructing at RAF Shawbury in the early 90's, we had a visit from a very pretty young lady who had been a passenger in a 2-seat Harrier a couple of years before - they had had an emergency and ejected but she drifted back down into the burning wreckage.

Her lifejacket wasn't fire proof and she wasn't wearing a cotton layer underneath her flying suit - she was gracious enough to show some of the scarring and it convinced me to always wear a cotton layer under my flying suit and also to wear gloves when flying.
http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/m...0925_xz147.pdf
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Old 20th Jul 2021, 20:39
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Yep, that's the one
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Old 27th Jul 2021, 10:54
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Chinook ditching North Sea

A friend of mine ditched a commercial Chinook in the North Sea back in the '80's They had a problem with the hydraulics which caused a severe control malfunction and wildly fluctuating Nr.

In the Chinook varying the rotor speed caused an increased vibration level that took some time to even out. My friend said the vibration was so enormous that he thought the whole control panel was coming off. Not only did they complete a successful water landing but all 47 SOB were evacuated and picked up by boats from a nearby oil installation.

The cause, if I remember rightly, the memory's not what it used to be) was discovered to be contamination of hydraulic oil. A compressor wash was carried out at the end of each days flying due to operating in a salt-laden atmosphere. Apparently the high levels of fluoride in the local water had not been anticipated and some inportant seals had rotted.
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Old 27th Jul 2021, 14:40
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The only hydraulic connection to the Engines on a Chinook are to the Engine Starters as they are driven by the Utility Hydraulic System....and that is not connected to the Flight Control System.

Perhaps finding the report on the Incident might provide a better insight into what actually happened.

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Old 27th Jul 2021, 16:37
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The only hydraulic connection to the Engines on a Chinook are to the Engine Starters as they are driven by the Utility Hydraulic System....and that is not connected to the Flight Control System.

Perhaps finding the report on the Incident might provide a better insight into what actually happened.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...987_G-BISO.pdf I don't think there is a suggestion of a direct connection in the systems, more just general aircraft and hydraulic rig cleaning. But several other failures stated. Sounds like quite a ride and credit to the crew in their attempts to analyse the fault and keep level headed.
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Old 27th Jul 2021, 21:16
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They did well....my thoughts are upon losing flight control effectiveness....with an increasing severity....I would have parked it a lot sooner.

Not being critical of the Crew at all....just suggesting I am content to ditch on a pretty day in calm water with lots of help near by.

Some of the symptoms sound much like the Chinook event I opened the thread with but not as violent as the Army event.

The two flight control systems are isolated from the Utility system on the aircraft.

The one place where the Flight Control Hydraulic systems can be "connected" is at the input of the hydraulic cylinders on the rotor heads if there is a leakage between the two systems inside the actuators.

The symptom of that is in one system reservoir gaining some fluid while the other is showing a loss.

The one thing the Chinook is very good at is leaking hydraulic fluid and lubricating oil.

Last edited by SASless; 28th Jul 2021 at 01:38.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 00:41
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The only hydraulic connection to the Engines on a Chinook are to the Engine Starters as they are driven by the Utility Hydraulic System....and that is not connected to the Flight Control System.

Perhaps finding the report on the Incident might provide a better insight into what actually happened.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...987_G-BISO.pdf

I remember being trained by the Captain of this flight. He said the company wanted to crucify him for not flying to the land base.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 01:41
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K-C,

I shall drag out my old Motto....."Ass-Tin-Ticket....in that priority.

The helicopter is a reusable shipping container for the contents.....use it as you have to protect what is sitting on your Wallet....the aircraft is expendable and shall wind up in a junkyard one day no matter how careful you are. Ultimately you shall too....but the goal is to prolong that as long as possible.

No one got hurt in that Incident....that marks it as a pure success in my book.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 07:43
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Exactly. The text of the report makes it sound matter of fact, but the way it was described to me when it was uncontrollable was one of cold terror. They only had one option: ditching.
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Old 28th Jul 2021, 16:29
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I was not suggesting that the hydraulic problem was with the engines but that the control malfunction caused collective/cyclic pitch changes which caused the fluctuating Nr and hence the enormous vibration
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 13:29
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Additional information

Hello, if I remember right from my time on Chinooks there was a hardware issue on the hydraulic actuator pilot valve, a grub screw or bolt came out causing a jam or disconnection of the control rod to the actuator. Canít remember if it was pivoting or swiveling actuator(Chinook has two hydraulic primary flight control actuators on each Forward and aft rotor).

Again, if memory serves we had to inspect behind a small access plate on the actuator that this hardware was installed/safeties installed before using the part because of this accident.

dan
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