Christchurch wedding day helicopter crash

[megan]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

How it can happen, starts at 00:47

You Tube

[krypton_john]

A passenger aboard the NZ wedding crash reported a sudden and total loss of engine power. Not sure what phase of the flight but still over the property.

[The Nr Fairy]

Originally Posted by eagle 86

On a tragic note here in Oz some time back a bride was killed on the way to her wedding when the B47 being flown by, I think, her brother hit wires.
Unbelievably sad.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...aair199900645/ for the full report, the crash was in 1999. The pilot was ex-military with lots of low level flying experience, so not a rookie by any means.

[rottenjohn]

Originally Posted by gulliBell

It was a photo job. It seems there were 4 POB. One could speculate. Low height. Low speed. Reasonably heavy. Turn out of the wind. An oopsie moment. Before you know it high sink rate, loss of directional control, splatter. Often the way with photo job accidents. Or maybe the engine suddenly stopped at a really bad place on the H/V diagram, the end result is the same.

Why on earth would you even post that? Armchair expert probably with no knowledge of what happened. Be interesting to know if you have actually any idea of the circumstances. You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

[Ovc000]

@Rottenjohn, Gullibell wrote "one could speculate".
Speculate: -> form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence
That's exactly what he did and have to agree, VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that.......

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by rottenjohn

..You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

4 POB in a 4 place helicopter it is fair to assume they were "reasonably heavy". That should be self evident.
My speculation speculates one of four possibilities, in order of likelihood.
1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level (don't always believe initial passenger reports about anything);
2. A sudden engine failure at a bad spot in the H/V profile.
3. A sudden engine failure outside the H/V which the pilot messed up the auto-rotation and splattered it.
4. Something else.

[rotorfan]

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

[212man]

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

Would seem to be (HP)

[Robbiee]

Originally Posted by rotorfan

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

Its sad how many cfis I've flown with who aren't very familiar with those safety notices.

,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by Robbiee

,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test.

That is what all opinion agrees on, until they become the subject of discussion.

[SASless]

VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that.......

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by SASless

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.

It is a global phenomenon. I blame poor education.
The area is low density altitude, as cold and low as you could hope for. Even a 4-up Robbie is not short of grunt on a short trip.

[212man]

Originally Posted by SASless

Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.

Agreed, and even more so that national AIBs are so quick to propose it in reports involving larger modern generation aircraft

[megan]

Agreed, and even more so that national AIBs are so quick to propose it in reports involving larger modern generation aircraft

A Puma was written off in our country and the authority spent some time test flying one with a company instructor trying to replicate the crash scenario at altitude as the authority was of the view VR was the issue. Test flying proved VR could not have been responsible, but guess what the report said when it finally came out.

[Nige321]

Originally Posted by rotorfan

I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.

1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level

I might be missing something here, but all the reports state the Robbie was simply the chosen mode of transport to take the bride, groom and photographer to another site to take some pictures.
What's so dangerous about that?

[gulliBell]

Originally Posted by Nige321

..What's so dangerous about that?

Nothing. Except all of them ended up in hospital with serious spinal and other injuries. However so it happened, it is fortunate they all survived. Knowing a little bit how these things can unravel, I wouldn't be surprised if operational aspects are involved, more than just a sudden engine failure.

[212man]

CM - I got your PM but your inbox is full I think

[Torquetalk]

Originally Posted by rottenjohn

Why on earth would you even post that? Armchair expert probably with no knowledge of what happened. Be interesting to know if you have actually any idea of the circumstances. You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.

Easy does it john.

That the aircraft ended up in the state it did due to mismanagement is quite a reasonable thing to speculate. Plenty of R44 accidents follow a wearisome pattern of running out of power or overpitching whilst doing something - like a wedding job or a photo job - which involved lots of traps for the unwary. And it is very easy to run out of power 4 up in an R44 if you start making steep approaches/downwind approaches/low airspeed approaches. Plenty of the time folk fly them 2 up and have oodles of power in reserve. Then they add a pax or two and a few items in the seats and more than half a tank of fuel and.. hey presto: accident waiting to happen.

I’d bet the farm on user error.

[Winemaker]

Originally Posted by megan

Confirm her brother e86, 817.

How it can happen, starts at 00:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtNm1IGwQc

I am SLF but have had a lifelong fascination with aircraft. In regards to this video, it was obvious to me that as soon as they entered cloud they were in trouble; is there any escape maneuver that can be flown to recover to visual flight? Thanks to all the posters on this forum for your sharing of knowledge - I must say I'm amazed at the number of ways a helicopter accident can occur.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by Winemaker

... is there any escape maneuver that can be flown to recover to visual flight? ...

This video has been discussed at great length, so I will try to avoid thread drifting.
But the escape maneuver from my standpoint is "land", back of Walmart parking lot if you need or anywhere flat.
will get you in trouble a little bit, but everything will be forgiven when come to understand that you are still alive.