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Running landings damage a runway???

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Running landings damage a runway???

Old 9th May 2021, 20:45
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Question Running landings damage a runway???

I did a running landing on a runway in an R44 and the airport UNICOM came on the radio to ask me not to do that as it marks up the runway and if we want to do that sort of thing we should do it at another airport...

I didn't get into it with him on the radio, but...

I know it does mark up the runway, but it seems to me that the marks are washed away with rain and the maneuver is not causing damage to the runway. It seemed more like any 'damage' is to the skid shoes, which we replace as they wear down. After rain you can not see any marks on taxiways or runways from running landings. Am I wrong? Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks
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Old 9th May 2021, 23:18
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I’ve noticed that fixed wing aircraft with wheels make horrid black tyre marks on landing...
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Old 10th May 2021, 01:11
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It's a legit concern. Go walk on the asphalt/tarmac sometime after doing one. You'll see they leave more than just cosmetic damage. Best to do them on the parallel taxiway of possible.
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Old 10th May 2021, 10:02
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Until the rain washes it off... We've been doing it for about 30 years, on an anti-skid runway and on regular asphalt runway, no marks after the rain.
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Old 10th May 2021, 12:56
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go to the grass
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Old 10th May 2021, 12:59
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Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
go to the grass
Most have skid shoes… grass is one hard stop
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Old 10th May 2021, 23:03
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This thread is closely related to the “training on grass” thread, apart from the fact no one seems bothered about the skid marks on the grass unless you dig in and really wreck it!
As far as run ins on tarmac/concrete/asphalt/pavement.....whatever you call it in your part of the world you will always fine a jobs worth supervisor that will want to bitch about the damage you probably haven’t caused.
Let’s be fair if someone didn’t moan about you and your helicopter what a dull life we would all lead!!
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Old 10th May 2021, 23:17
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The morning after a night SE training session in a B212 at Triploi Airport I was embarrassed to see the damage done to the surface by our running landings. All very encouraging to see the sparks from the skid shoes as we ran through the dark, but a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made.
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Old 11th May 2021, 00:23
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Originally Posted by John Eacott View Post
The morning after a night SE training session in a B212 at Triploi Airport I was embarrassed to see the damage done to the surface by our running landings. All very encouraging to see the sparks from the skid shoes as we ran through the dark, but a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made.
John, I’m sure that was the least of Tripoli’s airport concerns..... or the start of it
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Old 11th May 2021, 00:27
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Originally Posted by Phoinix View Post
Until the rain washes it off... We've been doing it for about 30 years, on an anti-skid runway and on regular asphalt runway, no marks after the rain.
With what type of helicopter, and did it use carbide skid shoes? The carbides on Robinson products leave easily discernible permanent scratches.
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Old 11th May 2021, 01:09
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
John, I’m sure that was the least of Tripoli’s airport concerns..... or the start of it
1978

In the middle of the airport was a mountain of baggage, left in the open on an area between taxiways. About 12-18 months earlier the Egyptian Consulate was dis-invited to remain in Tripoli following Egypt's split with the Soviet bloc. Unfortunately their luggage failed to make their flights home with them
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Old 11th May 2021, 05:38
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Originally Posted by Phoinix View Post
Most have skid shoes… grass is one hard stop
only a hard stop if you immediately lower collective fully down. Just let it sit, wait till a stop, then lower the lever. You can basically play with the collective as if it were a brake... more down is more braking action.
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Old 11th May 2021, 10:54
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Originally Posted by aa777888 View Post
It's a legit concern. Go walk on the asphalt/tarmac sometime after doing one. You'll see they leave more than just cosmetic damage. Best to do them on the parallel taxiway of possible.
Exactly, it does depend a bit on what the surface is made of: I'd expect concrete to be resilient enough, but tarmac on a hot day is easily damaged by bigger fixed wing aircraft turning on it, so I can see how skids could gouge it quite badly.
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Old 11th May 2021, 13:27
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casper64
a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made
The fixed wing chaps would love you John, grooves stop hydroplaning.

Last edited by megan; 11th May 2021 at 13:40.
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Old 11th May 2021, 19:42
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
The fixed wing chaps would love you John, grooves stop hydroplaning.
sending an invoice to the airport for improved braking action when wet
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Old 12th May 2021, 18:38
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Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
go to the grass
I have heard some bad stories of sliding on grass and digging in & catching a skid and wrecking an aircraft. Have al listen to Shawn Coyle (Cyclic & Collective book etc) talk about it on the Rotor Wing Show episode RWS 19.
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Old 12th May 2021, 18:41
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I did think of saying "This IS a public-use (and funded) airport, right?" But bit my tongue as I fly in there relatively often and like the airport management.
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