Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Running landings damage a runway???

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Running landings damage a runway???

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 9th May 2021, 20:45
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question Running landings damage a runway???

I did a running landing on a runway in an R44 and the airport UNICOM came on the radio to ask me not to do that as it marks up the runway and if we want to do that sort of thing we should do it at another airport...

I didn't get into it with him on the radio, but...

I know it does mark up the runway, but it seems to me that the marks are washed away with rain and the maneuver is not causing damage to the runway. It seemed more like any 'damage' is to the skid shoes, which we replace as they wear down. After rain you can not see any marks on taxiways or runways from running landings. Am I wrong? Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks
ChopperStudent is offline  
Old 9th May 2021, 23:18
  #2 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes on 222 Posts
I’ve noticed that fixed wing aircraft with wheels make horrid black tyre marks on landing...
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 01:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's a legit concern. Go walk on the asphalt/tarmac sometime after doing one. You'll see they leave more than just cosmetic damage. Best to do them on the parallel taxiway of possible.
aa777888 is online now  
Old 10th May 2021, 10:02
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 608
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Until the rain washes it off... We've been doing it for about 30 years, on an anti-skid runway and on regular asphalt runway, no marks after the rain.
Phoinix is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 12:56
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
Received 44 Likes on 26 Posts
go to the grass
Hughes500 is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 12:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 608
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Hughes500
go to the grass
Most have skid shoes… grass is one hard stop
Phoinix is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 23:03
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 446
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
This thread is closely related to the “training on grass” thread, apart from the fact no one seems bothered about the skid marks on the grass unless you dig in and really wreck it!
As far as run ins on tarmac/concrete/asphalt/pavement.....whatever you call it in your part of the world you will always fine a jobs worth supervisor that will want to bitch about the damage you probably haven’t caused.
Let’s be fair if someone didn’t moan about you and your helicopter what a dull life we would all lead!!
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 23:17
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 4,379
Received 24 Likes on 14 Posts
The morning after a night SE training session in a B212 at Triploi Airport I was embarrassed to see the damage done to the surface by our running landings. All very encouraging to see the sparks from the skid shoes as we ran through the dark, but a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made.
John Eacott is offline  
Old 11th May 2021, 00:23
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London/Atlanta
Posts: 446
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by John Eacott
The morning after a night SE training session in a B212 at Triploi Airport I was embarrassed to see the damage done to the surface by our running landings. All very encouraging to see the sparks from the skid shoes as we ran through the dark, but a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made.
John, I’m sure that was the least of Tripoli’s airport concerns..... or the start of it
nomorehelosforme is offline  
Old 11th May 2021, 00:27
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Phoinix
Until the rain washes it off... We've been doing it for about 30 years, on an anti-skid runway and on regular asphalt runway, no marks after the rain.
With what type of helicopter, and did it use carbide skid shoes? The carbides on Robinson products leave easily discernible permanent scratches.
aa777888 is online now  
Old 11th May 2021, 01:09
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 4,379
Received 24 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
John, I’m sure that was the least of Tripoli’s airport concerns..... or the start of it
1978

In the middle of the airport was a mountain of baggage, left in the open on an area between taxiways. About 12-18 months earlier the Egyptian Consulate was dis-invited to remain in Tripoli following Egypt's split with the Soviet bloc. Unfortunately their luggage failed to make their flights home with them
John Eacott is offline  
Old 11th May 2021, 05:38
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: N/A
Age: 47
Posts: 150
Received 27 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Phoinix
Most have skid shoes… grass is one hard stop
only a hard stop if you immediately lower collective fully down. Just let it sit, wait till a stop, then lower the lever. You can basically play with the collective as if it were a brake... more down is more braking action.
casper64 is offline  
Old 11th May 2021, 10:54
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 247
Received 23 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by aa777888
It's a legit concern. Go walk on the asphalt/tarmac sometime after doing one. You'll see they leave more than just cosmetic damage. Best to do them on the parallel taxiway of possible.
Exactly, it does depend a bit on what the surface is made of: I'd expect concrete to be resilient enough, but tarmac on a hot day is easily damaged by bigger fixed wing aircraft turning on it, so I can see how skids could gouge it quite badly.
alfaman is offline  
Old 11th May 2021, 13:27
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,936
Received 393 Likes on 208 Posts
casper64
a permanent reminder for the airport with the grooves that we made
The fixed wing chaps would love you John, grooves stop hydroplaning.

Last edited by megan; 11th May 2021 at 13:40.
megan is online now  
Old 11th May 2021, 19:42
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,691
Received 345 Likes on 116 Posts
Originally Posted by megan
The fixed wing chaps would love you John, grooves stop hydroplaning.
sending an invoice to the airport for improved braking action when wet
Beamr is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 18:38
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hughes500
go to the grass
I have heard some bad stories of sliding on grass and digging in & catching a skid and wrecking an aircraft. Have al listen to Shawn Coyle (Cyclic & Collective book etc) talk about it on the Rotor Wing Show episode RWS 19.
ChopperStudent is offline  
Old 12th May 2021, 18:41
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I did think of saying "This IS a public-use (and funded) airport, right?" But bit my tongue as I fly in there relatively often and like the airport management.
ChopperStudent is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.