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If youíre going to be daft enough...

Old 7th Mar 2021, 17:04
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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That's the French version in the same circumstances... I might have asked the farm shop delivery to be handed the sarny at the end of a broom handle myself but in any case you cannot leave your machine without regular flying, same with your muscle memory sake...
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 17:05
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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When weíre young we are endowed with the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. What we can or canít do.
That is instilled by the social structures we find ourselves in, not by a profound understanding of whatever legal system we have been born into.

When people need to justify their behaviour purely by what has been written into law, itís only because they are trying to justify their behaviour, and usually not because it benefits anyone other than themselves.

The world has been through more challenging times and emerged. There was just a common goal to work together and succeed and less whining.
Then again they didnít have Facebook then.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 17:17
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
When weíre young we are endowed with the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. What we can or canít do.
That is instilled by the social structures we find ourselves in, not by a profound understanding of whatever legal system we have been born into.

When people need to justify their behaviour purely by what has been written into law, itís only because they are trying to justify their behaviour, and usually not because it benefits anyone other than themselves.

The world has been through more challenging times and emerged. There was just a common goal to work together and succeed and less whining.
Then again they didnít have Facebook then.
Pompous crap: since when has it been against the law to visit friends & family? Yet currently it is, except under certain circumstances. Understanding what those circumstances are mean not getting a fine for breaking the law.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 18:38
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JTobias View Post
206 Jock - I donít want an argument but Iíll defend what and who I like. Itís no more your business to criticise than itís mine to defend - except perhaps I know the pilot and the circumstances where you probably no neither. Quite frankly I know what its like to have been vilified in the press when no one but me and a select few know the exact truth and then have no real opportunity to reply.

The fact that we are even locked down is a national disgrace. The rules are a joke, the response to the pandemic are nationally, and globally, a gross over reaction and the fact that anyoneís civil liberties have been restricted in this way is beyond scandalous. Nevertheless itís everyoneís choice what they do and if the pilot here wants to fly their aircraft in any manner whatsoever its their business and their business alone.

Weíve become a politically correct, left wing, prissy, woke and snowflake society, so scared of itís own shadow that the unfounded fear of death has made people frightened to live.................
All of this is of course debatable. However I really believe that this is not debatable: making a newsworthy spectacle of oneself breaking rules is dumb. Even more so when the general population has no alternative but to suffer under those rules. I reckon your mate's judgement was poor. Just IMHO of course.

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Old 7th Mar 2021, 18:54
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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It is sad to see so much selfishness in the Uk nowadays and thereferences to WW2 always somewhat amuse me because our current lockdown isnt dissimilar to restrictions on personal freedoms back then. Just because the enemy isnt visible doesn't mean it isnt at least as dangerous, flouting blackout rules just wasn't done that much law or no law. Views like how can be visiting your family be against the law well it can be quite easily , Berlin in the 60s-80s , WW 2 Vichy France vs occupied France, eastern Europe. Every so often these nasty situations occur and we have to deal with them as a society.

This is a grave and dangerous situation globally and people who think it is all overblown and unnecessary are either willfully ignorant or terminally stupid or voted for Donald Trump. Many Ppruners are of an older age demographic and we should thank our stars that this si the worst our generation has had to deal with -for our parents /grandparents and same age citizens of countries not far away they have had to deal with far worse. We should be sensible and accept that at times the public good is worth more than individual rights. and this helicopter guy is just a bloody idiot who as has been said brought the rotary and GA communities into disrepute.

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Old 7th Mar 2021, 19:13
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krypton_john View Post
making a newsworthy spectacle of oneself breaking rules is dumb.
What rules have been broken here?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 19:55
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by silverelise View Post
What rules have been broken here?
From: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national...1-e3109cce8eae

"Leaving homeYou must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
  • shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
  • go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
  • exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
  • meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
  • seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
  • attend education or childcare - for those eligible
If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay in your local area - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work.

Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

I would not think collecting a beef sandwich would meet the "necessary" threshold with regards to leaving the local area.



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Old 7th Mar 2021, 20:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krypton_john View Post
From: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national...1-e3109cce8eae

"Leaving homeYou must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
  • shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
  • go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
  • exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
  • meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
  • seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
  • attend education or childcare - for those eligible
If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay in your local area - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work.

Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

I would not think collecting a beef sandwich would meet the "necessary" threshold with regards to leaving the local area.
And we come back to difference between guidance and law... you posted the guidance....
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 20:56
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Just because "guidance" is not law does that mean that you are not stupid to ignore it?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 21:07
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helicrazi View Post
And we come back to difference between guidance and law... you posted the guidance....
I'm not a lawyer so I think a reasonable starting position is to assume that the official government guidance on the law is indeed accurate and in accordance with the law. If you think it is not then I will be interested in seeing your explanation for how this is so. Otherwise I believe you are diverting and obfuscating as the guidance is there to make things clear for non lawyers.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 21:07
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dickmct View Post
Just because "guidance" is not law does that mean that you are not stupid to ignore it?
In theory there should not be any significant difference between the two, anyway: unfortunately, that has not always been the case. Add in a dose of media misunderstanding, over simplification & shorthand, mixed with over zealous policing, you get people legitimately going about their business, yet made pariahs - whilst pseudo politicians flout their own rules & get away with it...
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 21:21
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krypton_john View Post
I'm not a lawyer so I think a reasonable starting position is to assume that the official government guidance on the law is indeed accurate and in accordance with the law. If you think it is not then I will be interested in seeing your explanation for how this is so. Otherwise I believe you are diverting and obfuscating as the guidance is there to make things clear for non lawyers.
You cant be prosecuted on guidance

Morally and sensible is a different arguement
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 21:22
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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It is constantly amazing how people from ordinary joes to the highest office in the land will happily distort the obvious truth to suit their own agendas and justify the actions they know deep down are wrong but were what they felt they should be allowed to do because they are somehow special and above the rules and guidance that the rest of us live by.

When you have consummate liars in public office and those who think that money in the bank gives them extra rights, we will struggle to get things like health and poverty under control.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 21:52
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, there are some really strong, socialistic, ethical opinions being thrown about here. Very emotional.

keep it real boys and girls.....matey in the Hughes shouldnít have flown to the local farm shop to pick up a sandwich. Itís called ďtaking the pissĒ......and one day it can back fire and it usually does. Especially for someone bossing it up in a helichopter like this.

If you want to so called ďsupportĒ your local business, write a cheque for them to cover their business rates for the last year....Or something along those lines. Not William-wave by flying your flash chopper into their back garden to buy a spam sandwich. Nice Hughes though, can I have a go please mate?
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 06:58
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Helicrazi,

Silverelise asked a question about what rules had been broken, Krypton_john answered it, where did anyone specify law?

Some of the 'rules' are enforceable by law, but it's just semantics, commonsense should have prevailed in this case.

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Old 8th Mar 2021, 07:05
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Momoe View Post
Helicrazi,

Silverelise asked a question about what rules had been broken, Krypton_john answered it, where did anyone specify law?

Some of the 'rules' are enforceable by law, but it's just semantics, commonsense should have prevailed in this case.
I think I was trying to distinguish IF a rule had been broken? Guidance isnt a rule, its guidance, law is a rule. If he hasnt broken the law then he hasnt broken a rule. In my view.

For instance, guidance is shop alone in supermarkets, if 2 people go together then they arent breaking the law, they are going against guidance.

What law did this guy break? Can anyone point it out?

I'm not saying this guy is right or wrong, I'm not getting into that. What I'm saying is, the whole thing is a mess.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 13:31
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 206Fan View Post
That must of been one hell of a beef sandwich.
Fixed wing pilots are used to the '100 quid bacon sandwich'. Is the rotary equivalent the '200 quid beef sandwich'?
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 14:33
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Post Brexit, indeed since that annoying Joan of Arc, English law has not applied to people in France. I am very sad about this but not sure why we are discussing the Cabri video...

The UK law is clear: You must have a reasonable excuse for leaving home. The guidance gives examples but is not exhaustive. It is not up to the police to decide, although they seem far too willing to do so, it is up to the Courts. The Courts would consider the defense as well as the guidance. They would clearly consider CAA guidance as the CAA would be considered an expert witness and read that you are indeed allowed short flights for the purpose of maintenance but unless you are a commercial pilot undertaking training or on a commercial flight you cant land away, travel 100s of miles, pick up a beef sandwich etc etc.

Personally, although I think the initial rules were too lax I think we are now far too concerned about mutations. Outdoor activities (and most helicopters count as outside ) are safe especially if you are on your own. The risk was negligible but sadly the restaurant filmed it and the police are investigating what appears to be an illegal act. Far worse, he has perpetuated the image of the rich businessman who doesnt care about anyone else and flies around in a dangerous noisy machine. Lets close another airfield, lets introduce some more restrictions....
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 16:00
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by silverelise View Post
What rules have been broken here?
In Brexit Britain, surely one is only allowed to pick up a takeaway in a British helicopter?
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Old 9th Mar 2021, 03:48
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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If this was a publicity stunt, then someone should tell them how to take a video with a smart phone.
Hold the phone horizontally you muppet!!!
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