RAF announces Puma Replacement plan
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 209
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From: Underneath the Radar
Reminds me of UKSAR2G, come up with a laborious tender regimen and ridiculous assessment criteria which prevents innovative solutions and forces tenders to withdraw rather than spend additional cash to get through the next gate...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 409
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From: The 24th & a Half Century
The irony in all this is LM informed MOD in April and were vehemently told not to tell anyone of their intent not to submit. It’s a freaking joke, DHels (oh look Bethell got promoted 🙄
and Army Futures need holding to account. Time to spend the money elsewhere one feels and take a capability holiday!
and Army Futures need holding to account. Time to spend the money elsewhere one feels and take a capability holiday!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 292
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From: uk
So, the hairbrush solution is to:
extend the Puma at xxx millions;
purchase a untested ‘M’ version of an O&G design at xxx millions
which will save you money even if we still don’t know how much an ‘M’ version will cost……
extend the Puma at xxx millions;
purchase a untested ‘M’ version of an O&G design at xxx millions
which will save you money even if we still don’t know how much an ‘M’ version will cost……
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 409
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From: The 24th & a Half Century
The thing is dead, long live the Puma HC3…. 
You couldn’t make this up, what a bunch of inept procurement people we have, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they have squandered multiple millions over the procurement process that has resulted in the total sum of **** all.
Kicking the can down the road simply puts the procurement costs up and to cap the budget reduces the amount that you can buy.
Plus you then get competitors simply giving up in despair and walking away as the reduced fleet size means their profit margins are squeezed and it becomes unviable to proceed.
You couldn’t make this up, what a bunch of inept procurement people we have, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they have squandered multiple millions over the procurement process that has resulted in the total sum of **** all.
Kicking the can down the road simply puts the procurement costs up and to cap the budget reduces the amount that you can buy.
Plus you then get competitors simply giving up in despair and walking away as the reduced fleet size means their profit margins are squeezed and it becomes unviable to proceed.
Joined: Mar 2016
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From: Underneath the Radar
Sounds like this one has finally died after a long battle, would anyone like to say a few words?
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 252
From: London/Oxford/New York
Sounds like this one has finally died after a long battle, would anyone like to say a few words?
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/
The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,185
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From: Lost again...
No it doesn't, it doesn't say anything of the sort!
The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.
The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.
And Putin will hand over Crimea
And Liz Truss will get the Nobel Prize for Economics.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,536
Likes: 295
From: The Alps
No it doesn't, it doesn't say anything of the sort!
The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.
The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.
cheers
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 46
Likes: 12
From: Wantage
Confused! I thought Airbus and LM had pulled out, therefore no longer a competition, or is it just poor reporting?
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/conc...pter-timeline/
“The competition has shortlisted Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK, and Lockheed Martin UK, with the evaluation process managed by Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S).
Eagle confirmed: “There are no plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competition… The competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.”
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/conc...pter-timeline/
“The competition has shortlisted Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK, and Lockheed Martin UK, with the evaluation process managed by Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S).
Eagle confirmed: “There are no plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competition… The competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.”
They absolutely have. Sounds like Maria Eagle is reading of a briefing sheet from Q1 2024. Leonardo are the only company to put anything forward for it....
I'm 90% sure that there will be no Puma replacement or NMH.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,205
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From: GMT
I can't see DE&S managing any evaluation process; surely they'll just sole source to Airbus like they have done the last two times. All that evaluation, requirements and value for money malarkey is hard work.
Much easier to just write a cheque to the French.
Much easier to just write a cheque to the French.
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,980
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From: Hampshire
I think The UK Defence Journal is confusing matters, there was no reference to LM or Airbus still being involved, just that they had received the invitation to negotiate last February'
James Cartlidge asked six questions related to NMH, the civil servant drafting the answer used the same text in five answers for Maria Eagle to sign.
The sixth appeared to be digging about whether Blackhawk is still an option, I wondered if he was thinking about remanufactured ex-US Army pre-Ms . The question was flat-batted away.
Question: "To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether he has made an assessment of the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk."
Answer: "The Department has not assessed the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk as the Department does not own any."
[QUOTE]To ask the Secretary of State for Defence:
1) whether his Department plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competitive tender.
2) ... how many platforms his Department intends to procure through the New Medium Helicopter programme, in the context of his decision to decommission 17 Puma helicopters.
3) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his decision to retire (a) Chinook heavy transporter helicopters and (b) Puma helicopters on tender scoring for the New Medium Helicopter programme.
4) what his Department's planned timetable is for announcing the award for the New Medium Helicopter contract.
5) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his timetable for reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on defence on the progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme.
To all of which the answer was:
James Cartlidge asked six questions related to NMH, the civil servant drafting the answer used the same text in five answers for Maria Eagle to sign.
The sixth appeared to be digging about whether Blackhawk is still an option, I wondered if he was thinking about remanufactured ex-US Army pre-Ms . The question was flat-batted away.
Question: "To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether he has made an assessment of the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk."
Answer: "The Department has not assessed the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk as the Department does not own any."
[QUOTE]To ask the Secretary of State for Defence:
1) whether his Department plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competitive tender.
2) ... how many platforms his Department intends to procure through the New Medium Helicopter programme, in the context of his decision to decommission 17 Puma helicopters.
3) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his decision to retire (a) Chinook heavy transporter helicopters and (b) Puma helicopters on tender scoring for the New Medium Helicopter programme.
4) what his Department's planned timetable is for announcing the award for the New Medium Helicopter contract.
5) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his timetable for reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on defence on the progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme.
To all of which the answer was:
There are no plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competition which started on 27 February 2024 with the release of the Invitation to Negotiate to Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK and Lockheed Martin UK.
The decision to retire the 14 oldest Chinook helicopters and remaining Puma helicopters has no impact on the New Medium Helicopter procurement process. The New Medium Helicopter competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.
The Ministry of Defence is continuing with the established procurement process, managed by Defence Equipment and Support, and the proposal will be evaluated through 2025 when, subject to Government approvals, a contract award is anticipated.
The progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme is not dependent on reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on Defence spending.
The decision to retire the 14 oldest Chinook helicopters and remaining Puma helicopters has no impact on the New Medium Helicopter procurement process. The New Medium Helicopter competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.
The Ministry of Defence is continuing with the established procurement process, managed by Defence Equipment and Support, and the proposal will be evaluated through 2025 when, subject to Government approvals, a contract award is anticipated.
The progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme is not dependent on reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on Defence spending.
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: The 4th dimentia.....
While all the mud is getting slung around it’s probably worthwhile stating some key facts to maintain objectivity.
The ordered 189s are behind slated delivery dates. Aircraft not ready due to supply chain delays and aircraft rejected due to acceptance defects. A risk always present when you elect for new state of the art aircraft.
RG
The ordered 189s are behind slated delivery dates. Aircraft not ready due to supply chain delays and aircraft rejected due to acceptance defects. A risk always present when you elect for new state of the art aircraft.
RG
As the usual suspects regurgitate the same narrative all over again: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-e...-somerset-jobs
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
A fourth entry has entered the market to provide the RAF with a cheap Puma replacement to meet the needs and harsh reality of the UK’s financial predicament, development is ongoing.
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: On land
Looks like the “one horse competition” is drawing to its inevitable conclusion. https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...162808.article
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Australia
somehow I doubt that, no float system, no baggage bay etc best assault helo in the world but not an offshore machine and not civil certified for pax ops..
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From: Den Haag