Coast Guard concerns after rescue
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Jim, as valid as your points are - if you don't search in the right area, you won't find what you are looking for. .. ...
In both cases, the search system you describe and the proposed spectral imaging search tool, there are two major shortcomings to account for. First, the processing capacity of the system, and second, the quality of the mathematical model. These interact because excessive complexity of the model eats into your processing capacity. The trick is to create a mathematical model that harvests the maximum effectiveness without excessive amounts of code. The commercial reality is that with budgets and timescales to meet then if your first shot at it is not quite right the next try is going to be a half-baked add-on that makes the right lamps come on but doesn't do the job properly. By the time you persuade the customer to pay for Mark 2, the guy that wrote the code has moved on and taken his notes with him. Sound familiar? I can tell you it sounds really very very familiar to me in my engineering world!
Jim, presumably those capabilities rely on knowing the missing person's mobile number? The Lifeseeker claims to be able to communicate directly with the phone even where there is no network signal - how?
Beacon Outbound
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "Home is were the answer machine is"
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Jim, presumably those capabilities rely on knowing the missing person's mobile number? The Lifeseeker claims to be able to communicate directly with the phone even where there is no network signal - how?
They seem to use a software driven radio on the GSM band. If they have your IMEI (mobile companies can provide this is they have your number) they can identify your phone easily, else mobiles like to broadcast to all networks, so providing your phone is on and water resistant it will start pinging any radio that comes within range.
The standards also make allowance for emergency services on a phone on any network.
The standards also make allowance for emergency services on a phone on any network.
The new NAWSARH aircraft (AW101) are using Redstreak. The other dedicated phone systems use a similar approach. Recco SAR is designed primarily for searching for Recco reflectors but Recco kit has been picking up quartz watches and mobile phones for many years and now they seem to be making phone detection a key function of the system since the phones are so ubiquitous. Lifeseeker also have a mini phone system that is designed as a payload for a Small Unmanned Aircraft.
This is another new sensor development that I have been trying to highlight as the UKSAR2G contract process approaches. I reported on it in my ICAR Air report to SMR last year and the SMR Aviation Group has included it in submissions to MCA Aviation.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: galway ireland
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paucity of information as to how well they were equipped ,ie LSJ`s,wet/dry suits,did they have their mobiles(in a waterproof bag),which also have torch (probaly not enough credit left)..? ..Are they teenagers,or adults,experienced,or just jollying ...? Lucky that the sea temperature is between 14-16 in that area....
Also reported they saw a helicopter close to them but sadly not detected by air sea rescue
kpd - Everyone who looks up at a helicopter assumes it can see them because they can see it
BR/IRR/Jim - thanks for the info
BR/IRR/Jim - thanks for the info
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Abroad
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. The systems used by JRCC to determine a search ares is more or less a good guess only (crap in crap out).
2. Always be in search "mode" on the way to and from a search area
3. It is an equal chance you will find the target outside than inside the area given to the SRU's, do not relax when outside the area...
4. Speed , height, track, spacing, discipline, endurance, sun etc as mentioned is key and training is vital
5. In this particular case they where found outside the given search area given to the SRU's, not unusual as mentioned
2. Always be in search "mode" on the way to and from a search area
3. It is an equal chance you will find the target outside than inside the area given to the SRU's, do not relax when outside the area...
4. Speed , height, track, spacing, discipline, endurance, sun etc as mentioned is key and training is vital
5. In this particular case they where found outside the given search area given to the SRU's, not unusual as mentioned
Originally Posted by [email protected]
... Everyone who looks up at a helicopter assumes it can see them because they can see it ...
...That is so true!
So, perhaps the method(s) of visual searching needs to be reviewed? Its been stated here that “no-one likes visual search practices” and that little snippet may just be the problem...Perhaps more intensive visual search practice and the promulgation of a revised “best practice”...?
There are more than enough training requirements and skill sets that have to be kept polished already (with a limited number of training hours), all searching requires is a professional mindset which I am sure exists already.
I find that in land SAR situations you can easily find that people are ineffectively passing over ground without truly LOOKING. Sometimes one has to really work at making oneself look in a systematic way, as well as turning and looking behind at appropriate intervals.
In FIFWA, (Fighting In Forest and Wooded Areas), infantry are taught systematic ways of scanning the area in front of them, and above!
At ICAR Air Commission 2019, Renaud Guillermet (Securite Civile) presented on Limitations of the See-and-Avoid Principle based mainly on an Australian report of the same name from 1991. The limitations not only apply to general VFR but to searching also. I reported to SMR that much of what could be learned from this could be applied to searching on land.
In FIFWA, (Fighting In Forest and Wooded Areas), infantry are taught systematic ways of scanning the area in front of them, and above!
At ICAR Air Commission 2019, Renaud Guillermet (Securite Civile) presented on Limitations of the See-and-Avoid Principle based mainly on an Australian report of the same name from 1991. The limitations not only apply to general VFR but to searching also. I reported to SMR that much of what could be learned from this could be applied to searching on land.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Originally Posted by [email protected]
kpd - Everyone who looks up at a helicopter assumes it can see them because they can see it
BR/IRR/Jim - thanks for the info
BR/IRR/Jim - thanks for the info
That sounds very familiar Shy
