NASA Airbus Helicopters H135

[chopper2004]

Announced here today in Anaheim and a historical first: NASA orders 3 x Airbus Helicopters H135 to replace the legacy Bell UH-1H at Kennedy Space Center supporting space ops.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...licopters.html

[PilotEpisode]

Looks nice in the NASA livery!

[Tango and Cash]

Surprised they didn't go with an EC145/UH-72 and leverage the Army contract for something with a bit bigger cabin.

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by Tango and Cash

Surprised they didn't go with an EC145/UH-72 and leverage the Army contract for something with a bit bigger cabin.

Good point seeming as the Lakota replaced the Huey in the army and would make sense as the NASA Hueys carries security and emergency response teams around the launch area.

cheers

[chopper2004]

First two delivered

First pair delivered (photos courtesy of Airbus )

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...ce-center.html

[Kulwin Park]

VERY NICE !!! I've worked on both the old & new 135's - they are a brilliant workhorse.
But why do they have the taller vertical fin fairing?
No floats either, which I thought would've been a requirement over water rescuing & transferring astronauts?

[QTG]

Originally Posted by Kulwin Park

VERY NICE !!! I've worked on both the old & new 135's - they are a brilliant workhorse.
But why do they have the taller vertical fin fairing?
No floats either, which I thought would've been a requirement over water rescuing & transferring astronauts?

The extended vertical fin fairing is Airbus’s response to the design department’s decision to remove the vertical stabilisers on the T3 variant. The first T3s, without the fin extension, had (still have) an uncomfortable tendency to fishtail at high speed, especially in turbulent conditions. The fin extension is now offered as an optional refit for those early airframes. Makes you wonder how come the test pilots signed it off in the first place.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Originally Posted by QTG

The extended vertical fin fairing is Airbus’s response to the design department’s decision to remove the vertical stabilisers on the T3 variant. The first T3s, without the fin extension, had (still have) an uncomfortable tendency to fishtail at high speed, especially in turbulent conditions. The fin extension is now offered as an optional refit for those early airframes. Makes you wonder how come the test pilots signed it off in the first place.

This tendency only became apparent when the Helionix model (P3H and T3H) was released which has a completely different AFCS system to the early T3 and P3.

[RVDT]

Earlier 135's with sideslip angles around 30-45 degrees suffer from instability from the wake from the endplates entering the fenestron. Not ideal.

[JimEli]

Originally Posted by RVDT

Earlier 135's with sideslip angles around 30-45 degrees suffer from instability from the wake from the endplates entering the fenestron. Not ideal.

Flying at sideslip angles around 30-45 degrees is Not ideal.

[RVDT]

Flying at sideslip angles around 30-45 degrees is Not ideal.

Depends on your speed. At a guess the 135 is completely capable of 90 degrees up to about 60 knots at the limit of the TR?

20-40 knots with an angle of 30-45 is the worst for endplate wake.

[Kulwin Park]

Thanks QTG. Explains it all now. I hadn't touched the Helionix types, so hadn't see that fin.

[QTG]

Originally Posted by FloaterNorthWest

This tendency only became apparent when the Helionix model (P3H and T3H) was released which has a completely different AFCS system to the early T3 and P3.

Haven’t flown a Helionix T3, but the problem first appeared (and it’s still there) on the original FCDS T3 with the traditional AP.

[MikeNYC]

Originally Posted by Kulwin Park

No floats either, which I thought would've been a requirement over water rescuing & transferring astronauts?

I don't believe water rescue is part of their mission...you may notice the H135's are not hoist equipped. USAF HH-60's served that role for awhile, but not sure if that remains accurate.

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by MikeNYC

I don't believe water rescue is part of their mission...you may notice the H135's are not hoist equipped. USAF HH-60's served that role for awhile, but not sure if that remains accurate.

Still have the 920th Rescue Wing at Patrick AFB

https://www.920rqw.afrc.af.mil

cheers

[drakkar]

Originally Posted by MikeNYC

I don't believe water rescue is part of their mission...you may notice the H135's are not hoist equipped. USAF HH-60's served that role for awhile, but not sure if that remains accurate.

Looks like they have the hoist fix parts at least RH transmission cowling in 2 parts and the RH top skid
.

[gipsymagpie]

Originally Posted by FloaterNorthWest

This tendency only became apparent when the Helionix model (P3H and T3H) was released which has a completely different AFCS system to the early T3 and P3.

The non-Helionix T3 are still stuck with a 90kt limit on the IAS UM mode IFR so I think the problem is on both variants. Limitation cannot be removed unless tall fin is fitted. To be honest the place you actually notice the lack of fin area is that it is less stable in yaw in the hover. Sure you use less extremes of pedal cross wind (ie you don’t get as near to full travel) but you have to work harder to hold a heading.

All of nips and tucks on T3 are about making it better for high altitude out of wind hover. I prefer a P or T2+ For sea level to and fro work (although I do like Helionix a lot).

[chopper2004]

Third and final

Third and final H135 delivered last week...

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/a...security-fleet




cheers

[havick]

Originally Posted by QTG

The extended vertical fin fairing is Airbus’s response to the design department’s decision to remove the vertical stabilisers on the T3 variant. The first T3s, without the fin extension, had (still have) an uncomfortable tendency to fishtail at high speed, especially in turbulent conditions. The fin extension is now offered as an optional refit for those early airframes. Makes you wonder how come the test pilots signed it off in the first place.

The fin replacement was free, but Airbus then schwacks you 30-40k for the autopilot software mod to go with it.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Originally Posted by gipsymagpie

The non-Helionix T3 are still stuck with a 90kt limit on the IAS UM mode IFR so I think the problem is on both variants. Limitation cannot be removed unless tall fin is fitted.

Gipsy,

Can you give me the FLM reference for this limitation?

Thanks

FNW