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Kobe Bryant killed in S76 crash

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Kobe Bryant killed in S76 crash

Old 6th Feb 2020, 12:12
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MechEngr View Post
I've seen an estimate that the rotor turns at around 350 RPM; if that is wrong then the rest of this will be too, by whatever the proportion of error is in that number. That means that the rotor is turning at nearly 6 rotations per second, (350/60), so 1/6th of a second for a full rotation.
the nominal main rotor speed inflight ( 100 % ) appears to be 292rpm , not 350.


https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...C?OpenDocument
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:53
  #502 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aerobat77 View Post
the nominal main rotor speed inflight ( 100 % ) appears to be 292rpm , not 350.


https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...C?OpenDocument
The nominal NR inflight is 107% (still below 350rpm).
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 17:09
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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Wise words. Allow me to add that most alleged "inadvertent entries into IMC" are actually abuses of the VMC untill all visual references are lost.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 19:33
  #504 (permalink)  
 
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Whether inadvertent or on purpose flight into IMC is somewhat academic, as both suggest pilot culpability. With 8000+ hours experience in the same area dealing with heavy smog, especially at sunrise and sunset it beggars belief that he could not avoid going IMC. And surely deliberate entry to IFR from a low level belly crawl at the bottom of a valley, against the operator certificate limitations, seems unlikely, even given our unknown of his relevant experience or competence.

We’re at a loss for an explanation, witness the thread’s decline into rotor rpm and engine fire certification. How about misplaced (it’s always misplaced) hero worship. Bryant was a has-been in the sports entertainment world, but seemed to still wax large in the pilot’s world in “servitude”. Wealthy people dying in helicopter crashes give our industry a bad rep, hence the HAC posturing. I always appreciated being distanced from my passengers by a business manager that made it very clear I was selected because they thought I would say no if the conditions warranted, and not yes out of awe of the client. We turned around a few times.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 00:42
  #505 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by malabo View Post
We’re at a loss for an explanation, witness the thread’s decline into rotor rpm and engine fire certification.
While it's great to read some wise posts about what probably happened, I and for sure some other PPRuNers appreciate and learn a lot in that posts, including a few offtopic, as the engine fire certification, definitions (IIMC x UIMC) and others.
Just my humble opinion.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 01:30
  #506 (permalink)  
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Judging from many of the posts on here, it seems that Occam's Razor is no longer part of the rotary syllabus.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 02:15
  #507 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Two's in View Post
Judging from many of the posts on here, it seems that Occam's Razor is no longer part of the rotary syllabus.
Or we wouldn't be at more than 500 posts so far. Maybe PPRuNers prefer Hume's Razor...
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 12:46
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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gulli, re fireproof the FAA merely defines it as,
Fireproof—

(1) With respect to materials and parts used to confine fire in a designated fire zone, means the capacity to withstand at least as well as steel in dimensions appropriate for the purpose for which they are used, the heat produced when there is a severe fire of extended duration in that zone; and

(2) With respect to other materials and parts, means the capacity to withstand the heat associated with fire at least as well as steel in dimensions appropriate for the purpose for which they are used.
The catch is,
1.1 of the FAR provides general definitions for the terms "fireproof" and "fire resistant," these definitions do not specify heat intensity, temperature levels, duration (exposure time), or an appropriate wall thickness or other dimensional characteristics for the purpose intended. With the advent of surface coatings (i.e., ablative/ intumescent), composites, and metal honeycomb for acoustically treated ducting, cowling, and other components which may form a part of the nacelle firewall, applicant confusion sometimes exists as to how compliance can be shown, particularly with respect to the definition of "fireproof" and "fire resistant" as defined in 1.1
The following 1990 document provides guidance, and defines fireproof as,
The capability of a material or component to withstand, as well as or better than steel, a 2000°F flame (+15O'F) for 15 minutes minimum, while still fulfilling its design purpose. The term "fireproof," when applied to materials and parts used to confine fires within designated fire zones, means that the material or part will perform this function under conditions likely to occur in such zones and will withstand a 2000°F flame (2150°F) for 15 minutes minimum
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...r/AC20-135.pdf

What firewall "fireproof" means in the S-76 would have to be answered by SK..
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 16:58
  #509 (permalink)  
 
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The Operator has some history with the Regulator.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 19:03
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The NTSB has published what it calls a preliminary report. The document is labeled as an 'Aircraft Accident Investigative Update'.

https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Docu...ive-Update.pdf
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 19:18
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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NTSB News Release:

NTSB Issues Investigative Update on Sikorsky Helicopter Crash

2/7/2020 ​The National Transportation Safety Board issued an investigative update Friday for its ongoing investigation of the fatal, Jan. 26, 2020, helicopter crash near Calabasas, California.The Sikorsky S-76B helicopter collided with hilly terrain and was destroyed by impact forces and fire. The pilot and eight passengers were fatally injured. The helicopter operated by Island Express Helicopters Inc., was on an on-demand passenger visual flight rules flight from John Wayne-Orange County Airport, in Santa Ana, California, to Camarillo Airport, in Camarillo, California.

"Our investigators have already developed a substantial amount of evidence about the circumstances of this tragic crash," said NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt. "And we are confident that we will be able to determine its cause as well as any factors that contributed to it so we can make safety recommendations to prevent accidents like this from occurring again.”

(This NTSB still image is from a drone video duplicating the flightpath of N72EX at position/altitude of last ADS-B target. NTSB image) [I don't think this caption is accurate, this is Google Earth, not a still from a drone video. - Airbubba - It has now been corrected, see below.]

According to the investigative update, all significant components of the helicopter were located within the wreckage area. Examination of the main and tail rotor assemblies found damage consistent with powered rotation at the time of impact. The initial point of impact consisted of highly fragmented cabin and cockpit debris.

The main wreckage was about 127 feet from the impact and consisted of the empennage/tailboom, both engines, avionics boxes, and portions of the cockpit instrument panel. The entire fuselage/cabin and both engines were subjected to a postcrash fire. The cockpit experienced extreme fragmentation. The instrument panel was destroyed, and most instruments were displaced from their panel mounts. Flight controls were fragmented and fire damaged.

The helicopter was not equipped with a flight data recorder or cockpit voice recorder nor was it required to be for the accident flight. The NTSB has been issuing recommendations to the Federal Aviation Administration to require recorders on helicopters since 1999. Currently, safety recommendations A-13-12 and A-13-13 are the only open recommendations that address recorders in helicopters.

The helicopter operator, Island Express Helicopters, held an FAA Part 135 operating certificate ISHA094F, for on-demand VFR-only operations, since 1998 and conducted offshore oil industry support flights and charter flights. The company’s operations specifications document listed six helicopters including the accident aircraft: 1 SK-76A, 2 SK-76B, 2 AS-350-B2 and 1 AS-350-BA.

The investigative update includes a summary of the ATC and radar data, weather information as well as a summary of video and photos provided by witnesses depicting the weather at the time of the accident.

The information in the update is preliminary and subject to change as the NTSB’s investigation progresses. Analysis of the accident facts, along with conclusions and a determination of probable cause, will come at a later date when the final report on the investigation is completed. As such, no conclusions about how the incident happened should be drawn from the information contained within the investigative update.
The full investigative update is available at https://go.usa.gov/xd84a

Last edited by Airbubba; 8th Feb 2020 at 01:23.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 20:15
  #512 (permalink)  
 
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Figure 1a in the .PDF shows a possible swath cut in the vegetation ~100 feet before main impact site. Fox News guy just said rotor blade clipped a tree branch. There's NO TREES to be seen in the area. All tall grass and 4-5 foot high chaparral.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 21:25
  #513 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
The NTSB has published what it calls a preliminary report. The document is labeled as an 'Aircraft Accident Investigative Update'.

https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Docu...ive-Update.pdf
Some quotes that struck me as pertinent (emphasis mine):
"The SCT controller then asked the pilot his intentions, to which he replied he was climbing to 4,000 feet. There were no further transmissions"

"The helicopter was equipped with a four-axis automatic flight control system, electronic flight instrument system, radio altimeter, and ADS-B transponder. It was also equipped with a flight management system (FMS)." ... "All inspections were up to date."

"According to FAA records, the pilot held an FAA commercial certificate with ratings for helicopter and instrument helicopter, as well as an FAA instructor certificate for flight, instrument, and ground instruction.His most recent FAA second-class medical certificate was issued on July 3, 2019, with a limitation stating, “must have glasses for near vision.At the time of his last medical application, he reported 8,200 total hours of flight experience. The pilot logged about 1,250 total hours in the S76 helicopter. His most recent flight review, including proficiency training in inadvertent entry into instrument meteorological conditions (IIMC) and unusual attitude recovery, was conducted in a helicopter with EUROSAFETY International on May 8, 2019. The pilot received satisfactory grades for these maneuvers."

I don't know what this means for the pilot's IFR currency.


They are showing some evidence that there was an unbroken cloud layer above the Van Nuys area from 1900 to 2400ft MSL.

They also found a large rotor blade segment 50 feet from the hub, and the hub was 60 feet beyond the fuselage and engines. This suggests to me that the pile of blade segments we discussed consisted mainly of 3 blades; since each blade has two red stripes, that matches.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 23:02
  #514 (permalink)  
 
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"Our investigators have already developed a substantial amount of evidence about the circumstances of this tragic crash," said NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt. "And we are confident that we will be able to determine its cause as well as any factors that contributed to it so we can make safety recommendations to prevent accidents like this from occurring again.”
(My bolding of the text)

I shall say it is my opinion Mr. Sumwalt is talking out his hind end.

They will come up with a "Probable Cause", they shall make some recomendations, and that will be the end of it.

They are not able to force any change that shall prevent this from happening again.....that is for sure because helicopter pilots have an astounding ability to repeat history and the FAA has a unique talent at ignoring NTSB Recommendations.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 23:26
  #515 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
(This NTSB still image is from a drone video duplicating the flightpath of N72EX at position/altitude of last ADS-B target. NTSB image) [I don't think this caption is accurate, this is Google Earth, not a still from a drone video. - Airbubba]
The NTSB caption is correct. Figure 3 is not from Google Earth. It shows the wreckage and people standing around it.


Originally Posted by 377 Pete View Post
Figure 1a in the .PDF shows a possible swath cut in the vegetation ~100 feet before main impact site. Fox News guy just said rotor blade clipped a tree branch. There's NO TREES to be seen in the area. All tall grass and 4-5 foot high chaparral.
The NTSB Investigative Update said (page 3): "One piece of 2-inch diameter tree branch was cut cleanly in 3 locations (similar to saw cuts) about 30 feet prior to the initial impact crater."
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 00:17
  #516 (permalink)  
 
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"...proficiency training in inadvertent entry into instrument meteorological conditions (IIMC) and unusual attitude recovery, was conducted in a helicopter..."
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 01:21
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogercopy View Post
The NTSB caption is correct. Figure 3 is not from Google Earth. It shows the wreckage and people standing around it.
It is now, the correct image has now been linked in the news release.

This is the image that was originally in the media release with the caption:


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Old 8th Feb 2020, 02:03
  #518 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
The NTSB has published what it calls a preliminary report. The document is labeled as an 'Aircraft Accident Investigative Update'.
The NTSB has now corrected its earlier tweet calling the investigative update a preliminary report:


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Old 8th Feb 2020, 10:12
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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This is the drone still rotated 20° left, i.e. what the terrain would look like if breaking out of cloud at a left bank.


Drone still from NTSB update, rotated 20°
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 13:15
  #520 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
The NTSB has published what it calls a preliminary report. The document is labeled as an 'Aircraft Accident Investigative Update'.

https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Docu...ive-Update.pdf
It is a press release. The preliminary report has not been issued.
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