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Landing Helicopter at Liverpool Dock

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Landing Helicopter at Liverpool Dock

Old 7th Sep 2019, 18:26
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Landing Helicopter at Liverpool Dock

Hi everyone, I will be taking my 109 to Land at Liverpool Docks for RoRo ferry to Canada . I presume I will land pretty close to the entrance to the ferry for them to tow it on board . Has anyone done this and have any information?!! As it is a twin there is no problem re congested area but will I still need any special permission?
Many thanks
Nigel
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 18:58
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If you don`t , you know what might happen.......
Id also checkout the video of the crew trying to load a CH-53 onto a ferry...or not to....especially if it`s got a ramp.....check it`s still got the wheels on after loading as well........

Seriously, you might want to arrange it to be loaded with the ramp level/depends on tide,or up the ramp then raise the ramp ,level,roll off ramp;same for offload....Geometry of nose/aft wheels going up/over/down a ramp...aerials under fuselage,etc....good brake pressure and chocks essential.....

Last edited by sycamore; 7th Sep 2019 at 19:08.
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 19:31
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From my experience as a shipbroker, tide should not be a problem, as the roro ship in question will probably be in the enclosed dock, with the water level constant and the ramp will not be too steep. Assuming that the height of the helicopter allows, the aircraft will probably be lifted first onto a MAFI trailer (a low specialised wheeled platform) and then hauled into the ship by a tractor vehicle. Much safer that way. Only if the height of the helicopter plus the height of the MAFI trailer is too much for the height of the ship entry, would they consider moving an aircraft into a ship on its own wheels.
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 19:41
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Further to my last: I would strongly suggest that you contact the Liverpool Dock Port Authority as soon as possible. They will need to arrange a clear space for you to land. Working docks are complex areas, with potentially all sorts of vehicles moving around in all directions, and obstacles in places convenient for the loading of a ship, but likely very inconvenient for landing a helicopter. This event is not the norm, and the sudden unexpected arrival of a helicopter overhead would be alarming to say the least.
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 20:09
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Agree with all the above . Anyone here actually done it ??
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 20:21
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Years ago,but military....PM
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Old 7th Sep 2019, 21:12
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Originally Posted by nigelh View Post
Hi everyone, I will be taking my 109 to Land at Liverpool Docks for RoRo ferry to Canada . I presume I will land pretty close to the entrance to the ferry for them to tow it on board . Has anyone done this and have any information?!! As it is a twin there is no problem re congested area but will I still need any special permission?
Many thanks
Nigel
Presumably you have already obtained a CAA written permission regarding the 1,000 foot rule?
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 05:29
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Itís N reg ...!!
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 07:13
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Just because itís N reg it doesnít mean the Air Navigation Order or SERA doesnít necessarily apply...!

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Old 8th Sep 2019, 07:37
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Originally Posted by nigelh View Post
Itís N reg ...!!
Which side of the road do you drive your UK reg car on when you visit France Nigel? ;-)
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 07:51
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Landing at ports is a pain itís easier to get a local Liverpool haulage company with a legal landing area and a Hiab truck to drive you in and unload onto the mafi truck
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 08:30
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Liverpool (Royal Seaforth) Docks sees many helicopters land / depart around the ACL container ship terminal.

Worth checking with Peel Ports 0151 949 6000

[email protected]
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 09:14
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You don't need permission from the 1,000 ft. rule when approaching for a landing.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 09:44
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
You don't need permission from the 1,000 ft. rule when approaching for a landing.
FED, Sorry but you are WRONG!! In UK, you are exempt the 500 foot rule, but NOT the 1,000 foot rule, unless landing at a government or licensed aerodrome. I have a file full of CAA permissions obtained in the past to land in a congested area.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 09:55
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
You don't need permission from the 1,000 ft. rule when approaching for a landing.
Hi FED, correct except for the following extract from the ANO:

Landing and taking off within congested areas and near open-air assemblies 5.ó(1) An aircraft must not take off or land within a congested area of any city, town or settlement exceptó (a) at an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or (b) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome in accordance with the permission of the CAA. (2) An aircraft must not land or take-off within 1,000 metres of an open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons exceptó (a) at an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or (b) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA and with the written permission of the organiser of the assembly.

Cheers
TeeS
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 10:29
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Hi FED, correct except for the following extract from the ANO:
At the risk of coming across as pedantic, your quote is from the Rules of the Air, not the ANO.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 10:39
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Your pedantry is accepted Mustapha, live by the sword - die by the sword :-)
Cheers
TeeS
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 11:40
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So my tongue in cheek comment about being on the N worked well !!!! In my experience you can do pretty much what you like on the N and nobody says Boo !!
CAA inspectors walk around me to get to a good old EASA AOC ..... easy pickings for them !! If they do come up to interview me , only happened twice in 35 years , I just tell them to make an appointment for an interview as they have no legal right to keep me !!
Flying in this country is coming to an end at its all you spineless pilots and operators who are to blame !!!
its too late now to demand any sort of common sense ... you missed your chance . I have said for years that every single AOC company should stop paying and just do lease flights ...... that would certainly get their attention and things would change . But I donít really care now as I have been outside the system for so long . Fly on the ď N ď !!!!!!!

NB ... sorry , looking at this rant it would have been better on the ď why bother with EASA ď !!!!!!
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 12:53
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Depending on where you are, you might want to consider investing in a trip to the Docks by road and speak to the people who will be handling this as well as having a good site recce. If you treat it like the confined area (5S recce) it is, you will have a much less exciting arrival than turning up in a 500' hover trying to figure out where all the cranes, wires, hazards and blowy stuff is. I know it takes time, but I'm assuming a 109 is a reasonable investment for somebody, so its a good trade off.
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Old 8th Sep 2019, 14:32
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One thing is for sure....flying helicopters in the UK has no shortage of Rules, Regulations, Policies, and COSTS.

Combine that with plenty of bureaucracy, jobsworths, and overlapping jurisdictions....all with self centered agenda's and it gets very complicated quickly.

It starts with the mentality of you must have express permission to do something or you cannot do it.

Compare that to the American mentality of unless it is expressly prohibited it can be done.

We have had many conversations about the differences in the past.

One thing for sure....the CAA sure does not like competition for their Fee's and Charges.
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