Is it getting worse?
Thread Starter
Is it getting worse?
Rotorheads recently is one long saga of crash after crash.
These are the first seven threads this morning, 5 crashes, one towing incident, and (perhaps very aptly) a life insurance question:
Are things actually getting worse, is this a unlucky blip, or are we just getting more reporting?
These are the first seven threads this morning, 5 crashes, one towing incident, and (perhaps very aptly) a life insurance question:
Are things actually getting worse, is this a unlucky blip, or are we just getting more reporting?
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Ahhh those were the days.
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Classic!!! I remember flying solo back to Wallop on my Army Pilots Course and seeing a gently steaming heap on the "Ponds" sloppy ground. A whistling chicken leg lying in repose with its blades neatly stacked in a line next to it. The pilot making the long walk back to the Line Office because no-one had noticed his whoopsie!
Ahhh those were the days.
Ahhh those were the days.
Ok so maybe it’s not getting worse as the thread title suggests - if this isn’t just a statistical anomaly, perhaps the question is why isn’t it getting better?
Newer technology, supposedly improved authority oversight of things like SMS, auditing and a focus on safety and quality - this should be making the accident and incident rates trend down.
Is the downturn and the lack of jobs making pilots more hungry to take/do jobs when they shouldn’t? What about the effect on maintenance of tighter budgets - I’ve been told by a maintainer that a particular bit of kit is expensive so they didn’t want to replace it unless the defect was terminal and asked us to keep flying with clearly degraded equipment.
Or perhaps it’s training that’s taking the hit - people have a can do attitude and take minimal training to get the job done, save money and protect their incomes...
Or it’s just a patch of bad luck ...
The high profile accidents we’ve had recently doesn’t do much for the image of safe helicopter transport.... that reflects on all of us in the industry.
BG.
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Things are booming on the US. More hours being flown more risk. Nothing new. Level of complexity of the aircraft and mission profiles don’t seem to affect the overall statistics,
I suspect the rot started in the early 1990's when the Garmin Pronav GPS 100 started populating cockpit dashboards. Student pilots put away their WAC charts and started blindly following an LCD screen. The most basic piloting skill of map reading and compass/speed/time navigation went out the window, and along with it a lot of the other fundamentals that make a solid well-rounded pilot. I mean seriously, when you see an ATP pilot get lost in the traffic pattern during a training sortie, as I've seen happen, and then once realizing he's lost has no idea how to get un-lost, makes me wonder how it's all come to this.
Latest data I found was ended at year 2016.
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Recall the infamous statement about statistics....."The use of Statistics is similar to a Drunk using a Lamp Post....far more for support than illumination.".
This is interesting reading re "Safety" evolution for Helicopters.
The section that discusses "myths" of helicopter safety and improvements is very relevant.
http://www.ihst.org/portals/54/indus...istory_Fox.pdf
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Recall the infamous statement about statistics....."The use of Statistics is similar to a Drunk using a Lamp Post....far more for support than illumination.".
This is interesting reading re "Safety" evolution for Helicopters.
The section that discusses "myths" of helicopter safety and improvements is very relevant.
http://www.ihst.org/portals/54/indus...istory_Fox.pdf
In answer to part of the OP I think more reporting has definitely added to the number of incidents coming to light, obviously the press are going to jump on the high profile accidents while other media platforms such as liveleaks, YouTube etc will contribute virtually anything!
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Remember that the internet and, worse, the media, is a giant pain amplifier. You used to only know about what happened in your neck of the woods. Now someone gets a hangnail on the other side of the planet and you know about it instantly. Look at accident stat's, not Youtube, to know if things are really worse, better or the same.
That said, it is nice to have a vast amount of information at one's fingertips. But it must be used for good, not evil knee-jerking.
That said, it is nice to have a vast amount of information at one's fingertips. But it must be used for good, not evil knee-jerking.
I just received this in email.
United -States Helicopter Safety Team-Monthly Report (July 2019)
Notice Number: NOTC9585
As of: 12 Jul 2019
Did “YOU” Know?
In the past decade 2013 was the most dangerous year for fatal helicopter accidents; possibly until this year!
The fatal accident rate at the midpoint point of the year is 0.84 per 100,000 flight hours. From a statistician’s perspective this indicates regression, from the perspective of those who work within this industry it means that since 01 Jan 2019, there are 27 Souls on Board who didn't make it back to the hangar and are headed west!
...
United -States Helicopter Safety Team-Monthly Report (July 2019)
Notice Number: NOTC9585
As of: 12 Jul 2019
Did “YOU” Know?
In the past decade 2013 was the most dangerous year for fatal helicopter accidents; possibly until this year!
The fatal accident rate at the midpoint point of the year is 0.84 per 100,000 flight hours. From a statistician’s perspective this indicates regression, from the perspective of those who work within this industry it means that since 01 Jan 2019, there are 27 Souls on Board who didn't make it back to the hangar and are headed west!
...
Excluding the ditching in NYC the rate of accidents worldwide where aerial filming or photography has reduced.
I believe this was down to a combination of greater awareness of risks and the increased use of stabilised gimbals.
Greater awareness came from a concerted campaign to pilots and the film industry, primarily using forums.
In the last three years the increase use of drones for low level work has probably had an impact too. (Note that drones have injured more bystanders than crashing media helicopters)
Pprune can influence pilot behaviour. My experience is that it is easier to address risks when examining a particular task, such as filming. Statistics help prove one's point!
Documenting human performance is key.
Official accident analysis falls woefully short in gathering the wider circumstances of the crash, such as pilot pressure ect.
Without a dramatic improvement in accident reporting to inform training and awareness programme, will anything change?.
We don't even know if accident rate per miles or hours flown is increasing or decreasing.
Can aviation authorities can come to the party and introduce a requirement for a report that details the task involved for each hour flown? Anonymity or comercial in confidence regimes could be employed?
Such an annual breakdown is of commercial use to owners and charter companies.
Specifically, what task information would be useful for the industry?
mjb
I believe this was down to a combination of greater awareness of risks and the increased use of stabilised gimbals.
Greater awareness came from a concerted campaign to pilots and the film industry, primarily using forums.
In the last three years the increase use of drones for low level work has probably had an impact too. (Note that drones have injured more bystanders than crashing media helicopters)
Pprune can influence pilot behaviour. My experience is that it is easier to address risks when examining a particular task, such as filming. Statistics help prove one's point!
Documenting human performance is key.
Official accident analysis falls woefully short in gathering the wider circumstances of the crash, such as pilot pressure ect.
Without a dramatic improvement in accident reporting to inform training and awareness programme, will anything change?.
We don't even know if accident rate per miles or hours flown is increasing or decreasing.
Can aviation authorities can come to the party and introduce a requirement for a report that details the task involved for each hour flown? Anonymity or comercial in confidence regimes could be employed?
Such an annual breakdown is of commercial use to owners and charter companies.
Specifically, what task information would be useful for the industry?
mjb
Helicopter Pilots are really a bunch of dummies.....we continue to crash helicopters for the same old reasons and rarely find a new and different way.
Break the causes down into categories like, Pilot caused, Mechanic/Engineer caused, Design caused, Material failure caused, Manufacturing defect caused....then discuss rates/trends.
First....you have to accumulate accurate and detailed data in order to facilitate such an analysis.
Break the causes down into categories like, Pilot caused, Mechanic/Engineer caused, Design caused, Material failure caused, Manufacturing defect caused....then discuss rates/trends.
First....you have to accumulate accurate and detailed data in order to facilitate such an analysis.
Helicopter Pilots are really a bunch of dummies.....we continue to crash helicopters for the same old reasons and rarely find a new and different way.
Break the causes down into categories like, Pilot caused, Mechanic/Engineer caused, Design caused, Material failure caused, Manufacturing defect caused....then discuss rates/trends.
First....you have to accumulate accurate and detailed data in order to facilitate such an analysis.
Break the causes down into categories like, Pilot caused, Mechanic/Engineer caused, Design caused, Material failure caused, Manufacturing defect caused....then discuss rates/trends.
First....you have to accumulate accurate and detailed data in order to facilitate such an analysis.
The first thing any budding helicopter pilot sees on Rotorheads .... So you want to be a helicopter pilot ? Rapidly followed by the growing number of crash reports !
Enough to put some people off ? I doubt it because most think oh well ! that will never happen to me. How wrong you can be. I have lost numerous friends in aviation related accidents both rotors and fixed wing. Causes... mechanical failure, pilot error and the most common weather. Keep on the ball every minute might be your last. Safe flying to one and all.
Enough to put some people off ? I doubt it because most think oh well ! that will never happen to me. How wrong you can be. I have lost numerous friends in aviation related accidents both rotors and fixed wing. Causes... mechanical failure, pilot error and the most common weather. Keep on the ball every minute might be your last. Safe flying to one and all.
