Two pilots are 100 times safer than one...
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Two pilots are 100 times safer than one...
According to the Child Flight (Sydney) web site:
" The helicopter always carries two pilots for the added degree of safety. UK aviation safety statistics indicate that the two pilot method of flying is 100 times or 10,000% safer."
Hmmm...
" The helicopter always carries two pilots for the added degree of safety. UK aviation safety statistics indicate that the two pilot method of flying is 100 times or 10,000% safer."
Hmmm...
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Duh?
A helicopter was lost at Headcorn when two pilots, one the owner and the other his instructor, disagreed over who had control and wrestled each other into the ground.
I suppose that cancels out 99 single-pilot accidents.
Either that or the claim is utter piffle.
A helicopter was lost at Headcorn when two pilots, one the owner and the other his instructor, disagreed over who had control and wrestled each other into the ground.
I suppose that cancels out 99 single-pilot accidents.
Either that or the claim is utter piffle.
And worst of all is 2 QHIs flying together...
2-crew aircraft are almost invariably also certified to a higher engineering safety standard. So, I'm not sure you can meaningfully separate the two contributory factors.
Problem with owner/instructor or instructor/instructor, neither probably experienced in commercial multi-pilot ops, is probably neither knows the first thing about CRM.
G
Problem with owner/instructor or instructor/instructor, neither probably experienced in commercial multi-pilot ops, is probably neither knows the first thing about CRM.
G
2 Pilots safer than one!? 
2 engines safer than one!?
2 sets of instruments safer than one!?
2..... safer than one!?
May be we get a time, that we need 2 "cockpit managers" like big airlines. But times are changing and we will have only to fly our ship and all the other stuff is prepared by other personel.
I don't talk about the jobs we fly today with 2 pilots. It's safer to fly at night with 2 pilots? Or is it safer and cheaper to fly with a SPIFR ship and an experienced pilot? I'm shure the market and the authorities will give us the answer in the next years.
2 engines safer than one!?
2 sets of instruments safer than one!?
2..... safer than one!?
May be we get a time, that we need 2 "cockpit managers" like big airlines. But times are changing and we will have only to fly our ship and all the other stuff is prepared by other personel.
I don't talk about the jobs we fly today with 2 pilots. It's safer to fly at night with 2 pilots? Or is it safer and cheaper to fly with a SPIFR ship and an experienced pilot? I'm shure the market and the authorities will give us the answer in the next years.
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Is that machine a Single Pilot.......or Duel Pilot certified machine...???
May explain the contary to industry standard viewpoint on two pilots.
Maybe a bit of commercial hype..!!
May explain the contary to industry standard viewpoint on two pilots.
Maybe a bit of commercial hype..!!
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Childflight have been in operation for quite some time and are a very busy outfit flying IFR aeromedical ops every day and night of the year. To my knowledge they have never had an accident. I know plenty of single pilot operations in Australia who have. Keep up the good work guys.
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From t'aint natural;
"A helicopter was lost at Headcorn when two pilots, one the owner and the other his instructor, disagreed over who had control and wrestled each other into the ground. "
From Red Wine;
"or Duel Pilot certified machine"
could this be a freudian spelling mistake?
"A helicopter was lost at Headcorn when two pilots, one the owner and the other his instructor, disagreed over who had control and wrestled each other into the ground. "
From Red Wine;
"or Duel Pilot certified machine"
could this be a freudian spelling mistake?
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Roundagain,
One incident comes to mind straight away. From a hospital after a mission, both pilots missed a tie down and became airborne with it still attached. Substantial damage as a result. Don't believe the pilot is still with the company.
One incident comes to mind straight away. From a hospital after a mission, both pilots missed a tie down and became airborne with it still attached. Substantial damage as a result. Don't believe the pilot is still with the company.
2 Pilots safer??
I guess it all boils down to the good old CRM abilities of the two pilots in question. Generally I would say it is harder to make a mistake if you've got 4 eyes watching (especially at high workloads). The important thing though is that both pilots know who is responsible for what (PF and PNF Duties)!
It also depends on the environment you fly in. I could not imaginge flying night offshore approaches to rigs in bad weather without the help off another pilot, it would simply be very unsafe....
One other thing, how could you eat your meal if you didn't have the other guy to take control for you .....
Woolf
It also depends on the environment you fly in. I could not imaginge flying night offshore approaches to rigs in bad weather without the help off another pilot, it would simply be very unsafe....
One other thing, how could you eat your meal if you didn't have the other guy to take control for you .....
Woolf
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One downside of two pilot ops is that by virtue of having two pilots, extra workload is created. I used to fly single pilot IFR and to be honest, I can't remember ever being overworked in the cockpit. There was less paperwork, checklists were very short and to the point, you didn't have to worry about briefing for this, briefing for that. You flew the aircraft and did all the radio work so you didn't have to relay non standard radio calls through the copilot. In a rapidly changing situation, there were less distractions.
In a two crew aircraft, how many times have you missed a radio call or suddenly realized you haven't done a fuel check for half an hour because you have been chatting about the football. In my opinion, you are much less likely to go into "thumb in bum" mode when single pilot.
I am not suggesting single pilot is safer. There is no doubt that in a pilot incapacitation situation (including IMC disorientation causing loss of control) the best chance of survival is by having a second pilot on board. But again, there are plenty of cases of aircraft crashing and nearly crashing when the handling pilot has lost it and the other pilot is head down filling in paperwork or reading from some unnecessarily long checklist.
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of two crew operations is the ability to improve adherence to SOP,s and identify the odd cowboy who may behave impeccably during check rides but "do his own thing" during normal line flights. Limit busting can be virtually eliminated if the company culture is correct
In a two crew aircraft, how many times have you missed a radio call or suddenly realized you haven't done a fuel check for half an hour because you have been chatting about the football. In my opinion, you are much less likely to go into "thumb in bum" mode when single pilot.
I am not suggesting single pilot is safer. There is no doubt that in a pilot incapacitation situation (including IMC disorientation causing loss of control) the best chance of survival is by having a second pilot on board. But again, there are plenty of cases of aircraft crashing and nearly crashing when the handling pilot has lost it and the other pilot is head down filling in paperwork or reading from some unnecessarily long checklist.
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of two crew operations is the ability to improve adherence to SOP,s and identify the odd cowboy who may behave impeccably during check rides but "do his own thing" during normal line flights. Limit busting can be virtually eliminated if the company culture is correct
Last edited by coalface; 6th Aug 2002 at 09:35.
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Does two pilots make it safer?
What is the definition of safety?
The difference between flying single pilot and two pilot depends on the type of job you are doing and how many seats you have on board to handle the number of crew required.
Two pilots does make it safer if the SOP's are adhered to. Child Flight has got it down pat over the past 10 years thanks to the talented captains that have been able to impart their knowledge.
Remember, they do only inter-hospital transfers where they do not need a crewman hanging out the door at unfamiliar landing sites. Their BK117 and AS365N2 are both single pilot IFR equipped but they carry two pilots.
I wouldn't even attempt to try and put a percentage on how much safer it is but I know those figures on the website came from a UK study on the subject some years back.
Some respondents here at this thread I know have never been involved in two pilot ops so they are not qualified to answer because they just DON'T KNOW! If you get a chance, give it a go. Having an experienced co-pilot looking over your shoulder certainly makes you operate the right way otherwise he might be up you like a rat up a drainpipe after you land. Mind you, having an inexperienced co-pilot next to you makes it interesting as well. He will be soaking up the experience like a sponge and hopefully make him into a much better pilot for the future.
My two bobs worth.
What is the definition of safety?
The difference between flying single pilot and two pilot depends on the type of job you are doing and how many seats you have on board to handle the number of crew required.
Two pilots does make it safer if the SOP's are adhered to. Child Flight has got it down pat over the past 10 years thanks to the talented captains that have been able to impart their knowledge.
Remember, they do only inter-hospital transfers where they do not need a crewman hanging out the door at unfamiliar landing sites. Their BK117 and AS365N2 are both single pilot IFR equipped but they carry two pilots.
I wouldn't even attempt to try and put a percentage on how much safer it is but I know those figures on the website came from a UK study on the subject some years back.
Some respondents here at this thread I know have never been involved in two pilot ops so they are not qualified to answer because they just DON'T KNOW! If you get a chance, give it a go. Having an experienced co-pilot looking over your shoulder certainly makes you operate the right way otherwise he might be up you like a rat up a drainpipe after you land. Mind you, having an inexperienced co-pilot next to you makes it interesting as well. He will be soaking up the experience like a sponge and hopefully make him into a much better pilot for the future.
My two bobs worth.
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Insurance requierement
Some VIP's require that when they fly, it be with 2 pilots mostly because of insurance and security reasons.
Carlos Slim the owner of Telmex (mexican phone company and COMPUSA (US Computer Store) flies out of my FBO sometimes, the other day he decided he was going to learn to fly and asked the copilot to stay on the ground, so far he's been able to hold straight and level but according to narrations from the pilot he still insists on having the controls up to the last second of the approach to his 33 story high helipad, which if it weren't for the fact that its at 8,000 FTAMSL and the helicopter will not hover OGE timing/speed/app angle has to be perfect. Now this is where 2 "pilots" are not as good as one.
Carlos Slim the owner of Telmex (mexican phone company and COMPUSA (US Computer Store) flies out of my FBO sometimes, the other day he decided he was going to learn to fly and asked the copilot to stay on the ground, so far he's been able to hold straight and level but according to narrations from the pilot he still insists on having the controls up to the last second of the approach to his 33 story high helipad, which if it weren't for the fact that its at 8,000 FTAMSL and the helicopter will not hover OGE timing/speed/app angle has to be perfect. Now this is where 2 "pilots" are not as good as one.
