Chinook winch
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Chinook winch
After watching that cruise ship being evacuated - I wondered why there weren't helicopters with larger carrying capacity dispatched so they could winch up more people during each rotation (no doubt due to types nearest the ship being available).
Thoughts turned to whether a Chinook could be used in a scenario like this - 16 or so pax for the Puma versus 35-50 for the Wokka.
I see Norway used to operate the type, but doesn't any longer.
I'd assumed they (Chinooks) all had winches over the right hand side door behind the flight deck.
But no!
A bleeding great cargo hook or two - but no winch?
A bit of further reading and it seems there is quite a bit of controversy about disc loading, down-wash speed etc.
Troops killed by mines allegedly set off by downwash - arguments over the HH-47.
Wiki doesn't seem to have the answer - can knowledgeable rotorheads shed any insight into operators worldwide whose Chinooks do have winches?
I would have thought the disc loading on the CH-47 would be much lower than a single rotor machine, unless it was loaded to the max...
Thoughts turned to whether a Chinook could be used in a scenario like this - 16 or so pax for the Puma versus 35-50 for the Wokka.
I see Norway used to operate the type, but doesn't any longer.
I'd assumed they (Chinooks) all had winches over the right hand side door behind the flight deck.
But no!
A bleeding great cargo hook or two - but no winch?
A bit of further reading and it seems there is quite a bit of controversy about disc loading, down-wash speed etc.
Troops killed by mines allegedly set off by downwash - arguments over the HH-47.
Wiki doesn't seem to have the answer - can knowledgeable rotorheads shed any insight into operators worldwide whose Chinooks do have winches?
I would have thought the disc loading on the CH-47 would be much lower than a single rotor machine, unless it was loaded to the max...
Even the earliest A Models had the ability to rig the Cargo Winch to work at the aft end of the ramp in a rescue mode or if the cargo hook had been removed....thru the access hatch over the Cargo Hook.
Some aircraft had been fitted with external Rescue Hoists over the years.
Remember the Mission Set for the Chinook generally was not as a dedicated SAR or Medical Evacuation aircraft where such winching would be part of the operational use for the aircraft.
We tended to do mass casualty flights where we landed and loaded Litters or floor loaded wounded or a combination of both.
Rotor Wash velocities can trigger Mines/Booby Traps/Trip Flares.
Some aircraft had been fitted with external Rescue Hoists over the years.
Remember the Mission Set for the Chinook generally was not as a dedicated SAR or Medical Evacuation aircraft where such winching would be part of the operational use for the aircraft.
We tended to do mass casualty flights where we landed and loaded Litters or floor loaded wounded or a combination of both.
Rotor Wash velocities can trigger Mines/Booby Traps/Trip Flares.
thanks SAS.
The UK Chinook can be fitted with a hoist, (used to be the same mechanism as the Sea King) but not all aircraft fleet wide are fitted with hoists due to availability and servicing, but most deployed aircraft are hoist equipped.
The hoist fits over the right hand door and has a 250’ cable. To use the hoist without any bodily contortions, the step requires removal and replacement with a removal plug - other than that it’s a fairly easy fit/removal.
There are three issues with conducting SAR with a Chinook:
Firstly, although all crews are trained on the hoist, they are only current to a basic level at any given time, as it’s a secondary role. Also, they aren’t medically trained to the same level as SAR winchmen/winch Ops, which may be a consideration depending on complexity of task.
Secondly, downwash. Though it would have probably been fine with a ship the size of the Viking Sky, the Chinook downwash has been known to cause more problems than it solves; it’s not an answer for a 32’ yacht with no power.
Lastly, the door is designed for crew to enter and exit the aircraft, and is sized accordingly. It’s narrow and a major faff to get multiple casualties or stretchers in and out of.
Could a Chinook of helped out with the Viking Sky? Probably, it’s a big old vessel, the Chinook has good out of wind hover performance and can carry a fair few people. However, SAR is one of those tasks that can get out of hand very quickly. It’s best left to the specialists.
The OP then goes off into different directions and I’m unsure what he’s asking. The Chinook with a hoist is generally as good as the crew operating it, wherever that may be in the world, but as stated 100mph downwash is a disadvantage many of the SAR aircraft don’t have.
The hoist fits over the right hand door and has a 250’ cable. To use the hoist without any bodily contortions, the step requires removal and replacement with a removal plug - other than that it’s a fairly easy fit/removal.
There are three issues with conducting SAR with a Chinook:
Firstly, although all crews are trained on the hoist, they are only current to a basic level at any given time, as it’s a secondary role. Also, they aren’t medically trained to the same level as SAR winchmen/winch Ops, which may be a consideration depending on complexity of task.
Secondly, downwash. Though it would have probably been fine with a ship the size of the Viking Sky, the Chinook downwash has been known to cause more problems than it solves; it’s not an answer for a 32’ yacht with no power.
Lastly, the door is designed for crew to enter and exit the aircraft, and is sized accordingly. It’s narrow and a major faff to get multiple casualties or stretchers in and out of.
Could a Chinook of helped out with the Viking Sky? Probably, it’s a big old vessel, the Chinook has good out of wind hover performance and can carry a fair few people. However, SAR is one of those tasks that can get out of hand very quickly. It’s best left to the specialists.
The OP then goes off into different directions and I’m unsure what he’s asking. The Chinook with a hoist is generally as good as the crew operating it, wherever that may be in the world, but as stated 100mph downwash is a disadvantage many of the SAR aircraft don’t have.
Where the Chinook would have been best employed in this evacuation would be to shorten the Winching Aircraft's flight to shore......by creating an LZ near the shore....where the winching aircraft could drop off their survivors...then return to the ship....while the Chinook then ferried groups of landed survivors to a better protected and equipped location near by where Medical/lodging/onward transportation was at hand.
This all requires "Fuel"....both for the Winching Aircraft and the Chinooks doing the shuttle flights.
The Chinook could really shine if a military FARP could be brought in to the initial landing point on the shoreline landing spot or a Chinook or Chinooks could be equipped as the FARP by means of internal tanks and pumps.
But...we have to consider the Timeline for such responses as this was.....these happen with no notice and as in this one....in a very remote location.
Logistics would be very complicated.
Again.....Hand Salute to all who participated in this rescue effort....Well Done!
This all requires "Fuel"....both for the Winching Aircraft and the Chinooks doing the shuttle flights.
The Chinook could really shine if a military FARP could be brought in to the initial landing point on the shoreline landing spot or a Chinook or Chinooks could be equipped as the FARP by means of internal tanks and pumps.
But...we have to consider the Timeline for such responses as this was.....these happen with no notice and as in this one....in a very remote location.
Logistics would be very complicated.
Again.....Hand Salute to all who participated in this rescue effort....Well Done!
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Unable to comment on other operator nations in the world, however with respect to the UK Chinook force - yes most aircraft carry the ability to have the hoist fitted, in my own experience the crews employed were not SAR current and had no reason to remain so being part of SHF and not the SAR Force; the crews did however practice hoisting from minefields (or similar hostile environment) before deployment in support of troops.
Chinook & Puma crews who were in direct support of SF operations were (and possibly still are) required to maintain a winch currency, and indeed most SF support airframes carried the winch in my day - although not the Puma due to the space it takes up in the cabin when stowed.
One amusing event from my days as a spanner on the Puma force, was seeing a baby loadmaster dragged across RAF Abingdon airfield grass by a hovering Puma who were doing not a very good job of holding a stable hover - although my smiles were short lived, as it was my turn in the strop next; luckily for me the crew plucked me out of the long grass far more professionally than the poor fellow before me!
Chinook & Puma crews who were in direct support of SF operations were (and possibly still are) required to maintain a winch currency, and indeed most SF support airframes carried the winch in my day - although not the Puma due to the space it takes up in the cabin when stowed.
One amusing event from my days as a spanner on the Puma force, was seeing a baby loadmaster dragged across RAF Abingdon airfield grass by a hovering Puma who were doing not a very good job of holding a stable hover - although my smiles were short lived, as it was my turn in the strop next; luckily for me the crew plucked me out of the long grass far more professionally than the poor fellow before me!
I sat next to a bloke while he won his AFC on a task involving a small ship, sea state 4-5 and an awful lot of double-lift and single-lift winching in the second part of the Op (much of it trapped deck). I don't know if it's been improved since, but the hoist failed at least a dozen times at various stages during the op - probably heat-related issues even though it was over the North Sea. Winch operator was Kev Hardie, who sadly died a few months later on the Mull. In a strong wind, downwash from the Chinook wasn't as big a problem as it would've been on a calm day.
