EASA final report on Age Limitations for Commercial flying
EASA final report on Age Limitations for Commercial flying
This might turn out to be good news for the 60-65 yr old single pilot group if its implemented, especially for things like HEMS / Police and onshore flying etc
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...SEA_2017_1.pdf
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...SEA_2017_1.pdf
“It is therefore recommended to extend the age limit of CAT pilots flying single pilot operations from 60 years to the pilot’s 65th birthday, providing that additional measures are taken (see Table 1).”
Well, I never.
Well, I never.
Calm down dear, calm down....
Read the disclaimer, this is a report commissioned by and submitted to EASA that EASA have published, it is not an EASA document.
I do think this is the beginnining of the end of an unfair state of affairs though. They’ve got a little over two years to sort it out....
Read the disclaimer, this is a report commissioned by and submitted to EASA that EASA have published, it is not an EASA document.
I do think this is the beginnining of the end of an unfair state of affairs though. They’ve got a little over two years to sort it out....
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
6 Posts
I left my HEMS job last September and took up an RAF QFI post in order to fly beyond 60. Looks like there may be choices available at the end of my contract. ��
You can stop flying your 139 tomorrow if you want. Some pilots would like the option to continue to do so. The UK presently has a mandatory SP retirement age of 60 with a UK state pension age of 67.
As someone who's approaching 65 in July, and who absolutely loved his Police, Air Ambulance and Lighthouse Support work, I am pleased that others may be allowed to continue where I was not. I'd have cheerfully continued flying public transport up to now; fortunately for me, a benevolent employer allowed me to continue as an instructor and then another, even more benevolent!, allowed me to join their Part-SPO operation where I can enjoy 4-5 hours daily, operating at heights I've not used since my exchange days with the Army.
I wonder what the British Airways Line Pilots Association contribution to this most recent process might have been? I remember feeling utterly let down when our union co-ordinator in PAS tried to get their assistance in our efforts to overturn the ridiculous JAA age limit. After several tries, he was sent a typo-riddled email stating that their position was to have 2 pilots in every cockpit and mandatory age-60 retirement. The uptake of larger HEMS machines with all their associated landing-site issues may well have been driven by other factors - 2-aircrew NVG ops primarily - but when your own union goes against the wishes and intentions of their membership you realise very quickly how their motives and those of their fee-payers are irreconcilable. I'm not convinced that aircraft of the size of the Agusta 169 (does it REALLY take 6 minutes to start?) are as versatile as the 902/135 in their choice of HEMS landing sites but fortunately I don't have to make those decisions any more.
Oh, and I've chosen to retire at 65, even though under the transitional arrangements I don't get my state pension for another 9-10 months. This is mainly because I no longer consider myself to be as effective a pilot as the job requires - I'm getting tired, and my eyesight (although still adequate according to the medical) is no longer as good as it once was. There are some motivated, talented youngsters who will take the role forward and develop ways of operating with the new sensor kit that's being fitted over the next few months - may they have as enjoyable a time as I've had.
I wonder what the British Airways Line Pilots Association contribution to this most recent process might have been? I remember feeling utterly let down when our union co-ordinator in PAS tried to get their assistance in our efforts to overturn the ridiculous JAA age limit. After several tries, he was sent a typo-riddled email stating that their position was to have 2 pilots in every cockpit and mandatory age-60 retirement. The uptake of larger HEMS machines with all their associated landing-site issues may well have been driven by other factors - 2-aircrew NVG ops primarily - but when your own union goes against the wishes and intentions of their membership you realise very quickly how their motives and those of their fee-payers are irreconcilable. I'm not convinced that aircraft of the size of the Agusta 169 (does it REALLY take 6 minutes to start?) are as versatile as the 902/135 in their choice of HEMS landing sites but fortunately I don't have to make those decisions any more.
Oh, and I've chosen to retire at 65, even though under the transitional arrangements I don't get my state pension for another 9-10 months. This is mainly because I no longer consider myself to be as effective a pilot as the job requires - I'm getting tired, and my eyesight (although still adequate according to the medical) is no longer as good as it once was. There are some motivated, talented youngsters who will take the role forward and develop ways of operating with the new sensor kit that's being fitted over the next few months - may they have as enjoyable a time as I've had.
Tightgit
Good grief Thud. I never thought I’d see the day����
Happy Retirement��
Happy Retirement��
Last edited by handysnaks; 17th Mar 2019 at 21:51. Reason: To add ‘happy retirement’
I stumbled from one age limit to another.
Come aged 58 I retired from my UK helicopter company when working in China and carried on for another year as a contract pilot.
'Casual Pilot' was the job description so I had been found out after nearly forty years.
When that ceased I was employed by the Chinese company directly doing the same job.
When that ceased I retired at 60 years old because that was the ICAO international age limit; permanently; I thought.
Nine months later my UK company were waving money in front of my face so I flew out of Aberdeen as a contract FO earning more than the captain.
After a couple of years somebody in authority decided that it was unfair that my contract pay, company and ex-service pension meant that I was earning more than he was so he fired me.
I wandered back to China on a social visit and I was told that the Chinese CAAC would recognise the age limits of the host licence so I could get an endorsement to fly to 65. That was useful to know because one of the UK company' captains had clocked a Chinese barmaid. Doing that is quite a big Wrong in China so he had done a runner. They were now one captain short and there was an experienced China captain on their doorstep.
One medical in Hong Kong and a base check and I was back in business.
Nearly 65 and the world is still short of Far East drivers. Get an OZ licence , they say, it lasts for ever. A call to CAAC: Yes, they will respect the age limits of an Australian licence.
Flashes of to Perth and after a months fiddling acquire an Australian licence.
Back to China and an endorsement for my Oz licence gets me back on contract with my UK operator.
I was now flying for and being paid by the largest UK helicopter operator but I am not allowed to fly their G reg. helicopters. I have to stick with the Chinese company's B reg. machines.
Typhoons in China and Cyclones in Australia happen at different times so I was shuttling between China and Australia with the doubtful bonus of being ex military so I was qualified to fly on the RAMSI operation in the Solomon Islands.
Then the Chinese state that all pilots have to have a Chinese licence?????????????????
A call to CAAC....Pass the exams, pass the medical, we will give you a licence.
I passed the medical, the difficult bit, passed the exams so now I was probably the oldest active pilot in a country with a population of 1.3 billion.
The UK company I worked for decided to pull out of China.
A bit of flashing about sorted that I was OK to get a job in Australia but the Chinese company offered me a contract I couldn't refuse so I flew for them for another eighteen months.
I finally retired at 68.8 years.
Come aged 58 I retired from my UK helicopter company when working in China and carried on for another year as a contract pilot.
'Casual Pilot' was the job description so I had been found out after nearly forty years.
When that ceased I was employed by the Chinese company directly doing the same job.
When that ceased I retired at 60 years old because that was the ICAO international age limit; permanently; I thought.
Nine months later my UK company were waving money in front of my face so I flew out of Aberdeen as a contract FO earning more than the captain.
After a couple of years somebody in authority decided that it was unfair that my contract pay, company and ex-service pension meant that I was earning more than he was so he fired me.
I wandered back to China on a social visit and I was told that the Chinese CAAC would recognise the age limits of the host licence so I could get an endorsement to fly to 65. That was useful to know because one of the UK company' captains had clocked a Chinese barmaid. Doing that is quite a big Wrong in China so he had done a runner. They were now one captain short and there was an experienced China captain on their doorstep.
One medical in Hong Kong and a base check and I was back in business.
Nearly 65 and the world is still short of Far East drivers. Get an OZ licence , they say, it lasts for ever. A call to CAAC: Yes, they will respect the age limits of an Australian licence.
Flashes of to Perth and after a months fiddling acquire an Australian licence.
Back to China and an endorsement for my Oz licence gets me back on contract with my UK operator.
I was now flying for and being paid by the largest UK helicopter operator but I am not allowed to fly their G reg. helicopters. I have to stick with the Chinese company's B reg. machines.
Typhoons in China and Cyclones in Australia happen at different times so I was shuttling between China and Australia with the doubtful bonus of being ex military so I was qualified to fly on the RAMSI operation in the Solomon Islands.
Then the Chinese state that all pilots have to have a Chinese licence?????????????????
A call to CAAC....Pass the exams, pass the medical, we will give you a licence.
I passed the medical, the difficult bit, passed the exams so now I was probably the oldest active pilot in a country with a population of 1.3 billion.
The UK company I worked for decided to pull out of China.
A bit of flashing about sorted that I was OK to get a job in Australia but the Chinese company offered me a contract I couldn't refuse so I flew for them for another eighteen months.
I finally retired at 68.8 years.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 18th Mar 2019 at 20:45.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Well done, Thud.
I guess I probably won't be too far behind you!
The 6 monthly medical does get harder every time (mine has been temporarily suspended four times over the years). My eyesight is still good, courtesy of the NHS. I'm part bionic these days!
But even harder is getting up at 4:30 a.m for those early take offs. I can honestly say I've done my share of "earlies and lates".
I guess I probably won't be too far behind you!
The 6 monthly medical does get harder every time (mine has been temporarily suspended four times over the years). My eyesight is still good, courtesy of the NHS. I'm part bionic these days!
But even harder is getting up at 4:30 a.m for those early take offs. I can honestly say I've done my share of "earlies and lates".
I posted the following on the flight deck forum:
Interestingly that forum seems hell bent on NOT extending any age limit, seeing it as a method of management working them until they drop, so they didnt pick up on my concerns. As said earlier this is not an official recommendation merely a report, but unless some behind the scenes work goes on in the meantime, any age extension could come at a risk.
Interesting report based on only 7 articles and data from only 6 out of 18 participating authorities plus this data is based on effectively failed medicals not incapacitation.
The good news is that an extension of single pilot commercial operations to 65th birthday is safe enough for up to 6 passengers although for 7-9 passengers the safe age limit seems to be claimed as 45-54!!!
The worry is that the suggestion is to introduce risk assessment from age 40 with coronary angiography and calcium scores for risk that may be based on issues like stress, financial worries and commuting - something pilots never experience
It will be interesting to see how this is taken up, noting that the individual pilot must be compared with risk in the population of the country of issue
but could lead to much more investigation and cost from age 40 and a number of pilots having medicals refused on the basis of perceived risk scores possibly in the absence of any pathology.
The good news is that an extension of single pilot commercial operations to 65th birthday is safe enough for up to 6 passengers although for 7-9 passengers the safe age limit seems to be claimed as 45-54!!!
The worry is that the suggestion is to introduce risk assessment from age 40 with coronary angiography and calcium scores for risk that may be based on issues like stress, financial worries and commuting - something pilots never experience
It will be interesting to see how this is taken up, noting that the individual pilot must be compared with risk in the population of the country of issue
but could lead to much more investigation and cost from age 40 and a number of pilots having medicals refused on the basis of perceived risk scores possibly in the absence of any pathology.
I posted the following on the flight deck forum:
Interestingly that forum seems hell bent on NOT extending any age limit, seeing it as a method of management working them until they drop, so they didnt pick up on my concerns. As said earlier this is not an official recommendation merely a report, but unless some behind the scenes work goes on in the meantime, any age extension could come at a risk.
Interestingly that forum seems hell bent on NOT extending any age limit, seeing it as a method of management working them until they drop, so they didnt pick up on my concerns. As said earlier this is not an official recommendation merely a report, but unless some behind the scenes work goes on in the meantime, any age extension could come at a risk.
Thanks for the cross-reference, Rad. I was tempted to reply, but as it's likely that the BALPA viewpoint prevails among our fixed-wing brethren I thought it better to abstain. I sympathise with the Belgian and German contributors - hadn't realised they had gone for retirement at 67 ahead of the UK.
Shy, Handy - regards
Apart from 5 weeks grounding after the sudden onset of rheumatoid arthritis, my version of which thankfully responded extremely quickly to treatment, I've managed to avoid the major medical issues that apparently inevitably accompany the ageing process. So far, al hamdu l'illah...
Shy, Handy - regards
Apart from 5 weeks grounding after the sudden onset of rheumatoid arthritis, my version of which thankfully responded extremely quickly to treatment, I've managed to avoid the major medical issues that apparently inevitably accompany the ageing process. So far, al hamdu l'illah...
Last edited by bafanguy; 1st Jan 2020 at 11:11.
IMHO this is a load of bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. A lot of people have had some nice jollies but there is scant medical research or relevant data attached. The proposal is more 'projects' but any statistician will point out the numbers involved to power such studies looking at pilots as opposed to the general population would take decades to achieve.
Good data does exist, such as that submitted into court for Ian Evans' tribunal (which was in turn argued over by Council), demonstrating the incidence of sudden incapacitation with age and comparing it with the risk 10, 20 and 30 years ago. That is all that is needed, because the decision should only be made on safety, not on the basis of the shortage of pilots or other pension rules
. IF it was safe for a 59 year old to have an unrestricted medical in 1970, what age could we increase the limit to today for the same level of risk? The answer is in the low to mid 70s.
Instead this report and the accompanying mass of presentations looks at life expectancy and the number of temporary disqualifications. Obviously both are correlated as they demonstrate improving health, but neither are relevant to sudden incapacitation. It then suggests a 'battery' of tests which is typical EASA nonsense as there are no tests which we can add that reliably predict sudden incapacitation.
Good data does exist, such as that submitted into court for Ian Evans' tribunal (which was in turn argued over by Council), demonstrating the incidence of sudden incapacitation with age and comparing it with the risk 10, 20 and 30 years ago. That is all that is needed, because the decision should only be made on safety, not on the basis of the shortage of pilots or other pension rules
. IF it was safe for a 59 year old to have an unrestricted medical in 1970, what age could we increase the limit to today for the same level of risk? The answer is in the low to mid 70s.Instead this report and the accompanying mass of presentations looks at life expectancy and the number of temporary disqualifications. Obviously both are correlated as they demonstrate improving health, but neither are relevant to sudden incapacitation. It then suggests a 'battery' of tests which is typical EASA nonsense as there are no tests which we can add that reliably predict sudden incapacitation.
