Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

UAE SAR 139 Crash

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

UAE SAR 139 Crash

Old 3rd Jan 2019, 12:19
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hotel Gypsy
Posts: 2,832
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
The most likely wires to be hit are the ones you know about.

That reminds me of a Balkan foray in1999. A Canadian helicopter had found some wires that weren't marked on the Michelin Road map. Next day the UK Puma flt cdr goes on a wire hunt with his Little Chef map; yep, he found the wires.

Didn't do Puma Boy too much harm - last time I looked he was an AVM.
Cows getting bigger is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 15:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
Didn't do Puma Boy too much harm - last time I looked he was an AVM.
Cream does rise to the top....right?



A decent video on Wire Strikes and the prevention measures one can use.....not the definitive source but worth taking a few minutes to consider.


SASless is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 15:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,197
Didn't do Puma Boy too much harm - last time I looked he was an AVM.
Pretty sure I know who you mean - the Little Chef (or was it Happy Eater) map gave it away

We were first tourists together on 72 Sqn if I've got the right AVM
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:04
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 55
Posts: 1,959
Incorrect I think
jayteeto is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hotel Gypsy
Posts: 2,832
Crab, close but no cigar. This particular chap first starred as a fg off on 230 when it was at Gutersloh. More recently had an AOC-ship.
Cows getting bigger is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 06:12
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Africa
Posts: 292
Wire strike?

New video showing that something fell off the AW139, allegedly supporting the claim that this accident was not a wire strike.

http://www.facebook.com/658864898/po...8151863204899/
Hot and Hi is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 06:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,856
Then why was one of the 3 zip lines found to be down after the crash? Sure, something departed the scene, you can see it falling (perhaps a FLIR head or rescue hoist or night-sun?). But if you fly into a wire it's quite possible the helicopter is not going to be intact after that.

With the severity of the impact and resulting fire I'd be surprised if there was anything of the FDR/CVR left.

Last edited by gulliBell; 5th Jan 2019 at 06:43.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 11:23
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
The part will be found and depending upon what it was....and the damage to it....and the location it is found and other forensic evidence to include the wire......will determine the sequence or events....assuming an effective Accident Investigation is conducted.

Let's be honest....Wires will straight up kill you.....and if there is wire down....the odds of it being something departed the aircraft THEN the aircraft hit the wire cutting it....are rather small.

Hitting the wire and something departing the aircraft AFTER the wire strike are far. more likely.
SASless is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 11:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 7,197
The initial press report was quite specific about a wire-strike and I am assuming the UAE press are better than the Sun or Daily Mail with their reporting accuracy..
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 12:55
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 195
When you watch the video you can hear the sound of a wire under tension snapping before something departs the helicopter so IMHO it was a wire strike.
As always the investigation should tell us what exactly happened.
finalchecksplease is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 13:21
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
Crab likes to bet on sure things it would appear!

How could they be less reliable?
SASless is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 21:43
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: England
Posts: 39
All very sad and probably avoidable. I had three compatriots die hitting a wire in Norway in a snow storm - now the Norwegians are very careful about wires and if you fly there you can see why and their wire maps are second to none. On this occasion the wire hit was a big thick cable rather than a wire and it was not on the wire map. When I dashed over to see the master map immediately after the crash I was told quote " It is not on the map because everyone knows it is there" - sometimes you just can't win........................
Georg1na is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 22:12
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,856
According to the family of one of the deceased crew as quoted in the UAE press, it was the will of god that the helicopter flew into the wire and crashed and made them all martyrs. So in that instance, the accident was unavoidable.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 22:16
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
Perhaps there was one Infidel in the aircraft and he did not ascribe to the "Enshallah!" concept?
SASless is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 22:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 146
Wow. A lot of your posts are worth reading, Sasless. But quantity does not equal quality. And that last post smacks of bigotry and a lack of respect for fellow aviators. Sad.

Last edited by Ed Winchester; 6th Jan 2019 at 11:46. Reason: Race is not a belief. Every day is a school day.
Ed Winchester is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2019, 23:15
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
Sorry that you feel that way Ed.....but having worked in Saudi, Somalia, Iran, Pakistan, and Jordan and with others who are followers of Islam.....there is very much a different outlook than for those who are not.

That is a fact....and nothing I said was an insult.....just pointed out that we are the product of our environments....and they vary greatly.

I would suggest you learn more about folks before you starting calling them ignorant and racist.

So get off the Out Rage Bus.

Last edited by SASless; 5th Jan 2019 at 23:40.
SASless is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 00:26
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 146
Yeah, you’re right. They’re all the same. It’s ‘Inshallah’, by the way.
Ed Winchester is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 01:19
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 17
So, Ed, you appear to have no issue with the statement preceding SASless' (#33), but only in his use of the the shorthand used to justify the unjustifiable in this part of the world.

My greatest issue would be with pilot's abrogating their responsibility to a higher power, rather than taking personal responsibility for the safe outcome of a flight.
Rocket Surgeon is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 02:02
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,856
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon View Post
1...you appear to have no issue with the statement preceding SASless' (#33)...

2...My greatest issue would be with pilot's abrogating their responsibility to a higher power, rather than taking personal responsibility for the safe outcome of a flight.
1. There are no grounds for any body to take issue with what the family of the deceased crew member reportedly said in this context.
2. It's just the way it is in some parts of the world, I've seen it first hand myself (only generalizing here and not suggesting for a second there was any intended abrogation of pilot responsibility to a higher power in this instance).
gulliBell is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 03:30
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: "Deplorable but happy as a drunken Monkey!
Age: 70
Posts: 15,930
I suppose Ed will agree that a full understanding of the Islamic use of the concept of "martyrdom" requires the grasp of the fact there is the traditional sense of the death of one who is submitting to the Will of Allah and should not be confused with the more common association of the term when combined with the current style of Jihad.

They are quite different.

As the flight was done in pursuit of a peaceful effort not related to a religion related effort....the family was quiet correct in using that connotation of the word.

But then what do I know.....eh Ed?

Pilots generally being very analytical sorts.....probably prefer to look for the causes of the event and seek answers in facts, data, and similar kinds of information.

But even then we have to remember.....the analytic approach runs out of gas for example when the question asked is "How did the the people onboard Pan Am 103 happen to find themselves on the flight that night when the bomb went off?".

That is when we bring in that notion of "Fate", "Luck", "Karma", etc.
SASless is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.